Stitching Vs Rivets

[JamesR]

Hello,

I am confused as to why and when we use rivets. I would think that stitching would be a stronger alternative to rivets.

It seems that with stitching the load is distributed over a larger area and therefore would make a stronger connection.

When we rivet leather together it looks like the load is concentrated around the punched hole the rivet is set in. I have owned bags where the

handles were riveted and eventually the hole around the rivet elongated and the rivet became loose.

Can anyone shed some light on this? I am particularly interested in attaching D-rings to bags.

Jim

[Drac]

after thinking long and hard on it (ow! you makeded da brain hurts! okay, so actually it wasn't long at all, but it's early. *L*), here's my take on riveting vs stitching.

riveting is decorative (a nice byproduct), quicker, easier, cheaper (when comparing machinery costs and even timewise, especially if doing it by hand), easier and quicker (usually) to replace if need be and personally I think stronger when done correctly. stitching can be nice on some things, but to get the strength needed with some items you've got to do a lot of stitching and that can actually be detrimental at times to the strength of the connection since there're a lot of little holes in one area that were formed by basically tearing the leather with a needle instead of removing some cleanly with a punch. I know it's different material, but the effect is still mostly the same. take a piece of vinyl and punch a hole with a hole punch, then poke a bunch of holes in a row with a needle beside it. now pull at the edges. the stitch line will tear before the punched hole will.

[JamesR]

after thinking long and hard on it (ow! you makeded da brain hurts! okay, so actually it wasn't long at all, but it's early. *L*), here's my take on riveting vs stitching.

riveting is decorative (a nice byproduct), quicker, easier, cheaper (when comparing machinery costs and even timewise, especially if doing it by hand), easier and quicker (usually) to replace if need be and personally I think stronger when done correctly. stitching can be nice on some things, but to get the strength needed with some items you've got to do a lot of stitching and that can actually be detrimental at times to the strength of the connection since there're a lot of little holes in one area that were formed by basically tearing the leather with a needle instead of removing some cleanly with a punch. I know it's different material, but the effect is still mostly the same. take a piece of vinyl and punch a hole with a hole punch, then poke a bunch of holes in a row with a needle beside it. now pull at the edges. the stitch line will tear before the punched hole will.

Drac,

Now you got me rethinking things! I have at times wondered if stitching into small (000) punched or drilled holes would be stronger than pierced holes.

I use a stitching awl and it is certainly faster then prepunching or drilling but what you say does make sense.

Thanks for the reply

Jim

[bentley]

I believe strength also depends on how something is stitched, while doing all the straps on my McClellan saddle the stitching is always done parrallel to the edge of the strap on both sides so you don't punch a bunch of holes across (perpendicular) the strap which may create a weak area. Most straps also had a single rivet, guess they weren't taking any chances in the late 1800's.

[Art]

And they don't take any chances today when it really counts. If you look at the trinity of safety belts, Bashlin, Buckingham, and Klein, you'll see they use stitching and burr rivets, nowadays, they even use lacing in addition to that. Even little tounged d-rings are attached with two burr rivets and safety dees (the ones you attach the strap that connects you to the pole) are stitched and riveted. Pole straps, because they are narrower than belts, and can be abraded by the pole, do not have any stitching at all (usually), the clip ends are usually held on by the leather which is then reinforced by a metal cover which goes through the clip end and down the front and back of the belt and is then riveted around and through the leather attaching the clip end or buckle. When riveting, it is better to limit the motion of the leather around the rivet by double riveting or stitching and riveting.

Art

I believe strength also depends on how something is stitched, while doing all the straps on my McClellan saddle the stitching is always done parrallel to the edge of the strap on both sides so you don't punch a bunch of holes across (perpendicular) the strap which may create a weak area. Most straps also had a single rivet, guess they weren't taking any chances in the late 1800's.

[MADMAX22]

I think with rivets it also depends on what type. For everyday leather work the rapid rivets while pretty strong dont compare to the copper rivets that you can get which take more time to set but are far stronger (as far as the rivet is concerned).

[bentley]

I think with rivets it also depends on what type. For everyday leather work the rapid rivets while pretty strong dont compare to the copper rivets that you can get which take more time to set but are far stronger (as far as the rivet is concerned).

Or brass rivet and bur for the McClellan saddle.

[Art]

Every time I set any of those brass burr rivets, don't matter if they are flat head or round head, I have to break into a chorus of "John Henry was a steel drivin' man" to get the job done.

Art

Or brass rivet and bur for the McClellan saddle.