Kangaroo Lace

[Spinner]

Hey folks,

I've been looking at Black 1/8" kangaroo lace and have found that depending on where you look the price for a 25 yd spool varies from $23-70. That's a pretty big spread for a similar product. Is there a huge difference in what the suppliers have like there is in leather hides? If so, what are those differences and would some of the folks that use roo lace consistently tell me where you buy yours and why?

Thanks in advance,

Chris

[King's X]

SpinnerI have purchased from Springfield and pay about $35-$40 for 100 yards.....cannot remember...ol timers disease. I was talking with Big Papa leather last night and told him that I remember someone mentioned on here about a site that sold 100 yards in a dozen colors for $30? I cannot remember the site name, but I will have to find it for BPL and will post it here for you all!

[Spinner]

That would be very helpful! Just trying to figure out how best to spend my supply dollars. i don't mind waiting a few extra days to have something shipped if the price is that much better. The local store has it for $70 a spool yet the highest anywhere else online is about $50. If I can save $20-30 for the same or better quality by simply waiting on the post man I will.

[King's X]

No worries...let me find it for you. Oh, my invoice will be in the mail for agent service! Just kidding, lol!! You hooking me up, gotta take care of you!!

[roo4u]

best quality lace? cut your own!

[King's X]

Yea, but if I did that then I would need a big shop just to hold everything I needed to do myself! Something need to be bought done or halfway done, but I understand your position!

[Spinner]

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. My main leather area is a small desk in the dining room.

I have a 10x10 shop outside but it houses all the large power tools and the dust that comes from them!

[roo4u]

i know not everyone has the time or even wants to cut their own lace....just make sure that your not getting chrome tan roo....its very much more stretchy than veg tan and especially be careful if your using it for lacing seats or something like that.

[rcsaddles]

I just got two spools of 54 yards each at a price of $39.00 per spool. Came form Y~Knot Lace. www.y-knotlace.com Pretty good stuff. She took over Jim Downey's lace business when he retired last year.

I will tell you the lace I got is not beveled so if that is an issue, you may want to ask before ordering. I am happy with the price and the quality. I do also agree with roo4u in that teh most economical is to cut your own. Takes time and practice.

[King's X]

True that! That is why I like to order from members on this forum! It is not a guarantee, but close to it. I have yet to be burned by anyone on here and hopefully vice versa. So, if anyone makes this roo lace and wants to sell......speak up! You might have two new customers. Enjoy your day

[Spence]

The dining room table is plenty big enough to handle cutting lace from a roo hide. I've even done it over a 2x6" saw horse. Like roo4u says, it's the best way to know what you're getting.

Having said that, I also agree that y-knotlace has the best pre-cut lace on this side of the pond. Both price and quality.

Chrome tan is a pet peeve of mine. The process destroys the cell walls of the leather, thereby making them "soft as a baby's behind." That's where you'd get the stretch (and ultimately, the breakage) from. Plus, if you look up the MSDS sheet on Chromium Salts, it gets scary.

Beveling is something you're most likely going to have to learn and live with if you're concerned with the bottom line. With practice and plenty of soap, it will become easy.

[Spinner]

Thanks for the info folks, at least now I have some idea of what questions to ask the suppliers.

This lace will be going on my most requested items, motorcycle side covers and tank bibs. I don't have a lace cutter yet but am working on it (want to get a good one) and I'll need to read up more on the process of cutting, stretching and beveling my own lace....likely need to buy all those tools for that as well.

Currently I use superior lace and pre-stretch it as I pull pretty good on the side covers when lacing the top/side seams. It comes out decent enough but I've read that to be in the "next level" group of quality, Roo is the way to go. Just need to find a place that can supply ready to work with roo lace until I figure out the making my own process.

What good tools are recommended for the cutting/beveling/making of lace from a hide?

[roo4u]

for cutting i use a little wooden cutter sold by davidmorgan.com. he is a whipmaker and braider and these little cutters are what they use in their production. only 12.00. prior to that i used a lacemaker from tandy. my splitter is homemade from a design that someone posted on the forum a year or two ago. for beveling i just bought the beveler from yknot lace...70.00 and easy to use works well.

[Spinner]

for cutting i use a little wooden cutter sold by davidmorgan.com. he is a whipmaker and braider and these little cutters are what they use in their production. only 12.00. prior to that i used a lacemaker from tandy. my splitter is homemade from a design that someone posted on the forum a year or two ago. for beveling i just bought the beveler from yknot lace...70.00 and easy to use works well.

Thanks Roo, I'll check those out. In the meantime I have some coming from SLC to mess around with.

[Bevan]

Thanks for the info folks, at least now I have some idea of what questions to ask the suppliers.

This lace will be going on my most requested items, motorcycle side covers and tank bibs. I don't have a lace cutter yet but am working on it (want to get a good one) and I'll need to read up more on the process of cutting, stretching and beveling my own lace....likely need to buy all those tools for that as well.

Currently I use superior lace and pre-stretch it as I pull pretty good on the side covers when lacing the top/side seams. It comes out decent enough but I've read that to be in the "next level" group of quality, Roo is the way to go. Just need to find a place that can supply ready to work with roo lace until I figure out the making my own process.

What good tools are recommended for the cutting/beveling/making of lace from a hide?

Gday Spinner

I have been reading your post with interest on how people cut or buy their lace !!

I make &sell a beveller / resizer tool and i use a RMW strand cutter and splitter,

First I cut a 25mm strip all the way around the hide untill i get to the center and have a piece left that is about 6 inch in dia.

I then stretch this 1 inch strip by wrapping it around a hook screwed into a post ! " well i picked the arch way inside my house " then i pull the leather around the hook and pass the leather from my right hand to my left , keeping plenty of pressure as i go

then after that you will notice that the leather is not all one size it will veary a bit here and there so this is were my little machine comes into it , i set the back gauge up so I can cut lace at 6mm, 1/4 inch this will give me about 50 odd feet or there abouts , I can get 2 more pieces of lace at 6mm wide from the same strip that i cut at 25mm.

Now i am left with an uneven strip of leather because of the stretch so now i will adjust the resizer so i can cut some 3mm or 2.5 mm lace.

With the 6inch circlesi use a tandy lace cutter and cut them as wide as i can then stretch and resize .

I hope this helps

Cheers

Bevan

ps here is my website if ya want to have a captain cook

www.bwrwhips.com

[Spence]

Great info, Bevan!!

I also use the RMW for my strands.

I use Dene Williams' skivver so often that I made a belt holster for it. I use it whether it's needed or not. It's great for store-bought lace because it evens out the splices somewhat. I've even used it on 1-1/2" 8 oz straps.

For beveling, I'm still using the old box cutter with the single edged blade and lots of soap.

No doubt there's other, more comfortable and maybe easier tools to use, but that's what I've ended up with in my lace prep pouch.

[8thsinner]

I didn't know about Yknotlace before, As when I ordered I used Spring field leather.

Has anyone got a direct comparison of colour for colour from each company?

If so, tell me and everyone else here what your opinions of it are please.

Bevan, can I also ask you, what size of skin are you cutting from on average to get your lace.

And just so I am clear, roughly you are getting

6mm/1/4" - 50 yards

6mm/1/4" - 50 yards

6mm/1/4" - 50 yards

3mm/1/8" - 50 yards

Losing about 4mm in stretch...

And roughly 10-12 feet in 3mm from the end circle?

Edited September 23, 2010 by 8thsinner

[Bevan]

Gday Spence

I also have a Dean Williams strand cutter , it was a bit diffrent to use than my old RMW one , but i tell ya what ,, it is the beez neez now mate ,,

and i must agree the skivver is just awesome ,,, if people want a very good tool to do the job and dont want a $ 300 bill this is the one for you !!!!

I have some pics of the Dean Williams strand cutter and splitter , I will post soon but first i need the little lady to resize them ,

Spence I wouldnt mind having a few chats with you mate ,,,,,, i use my skivver all the time too but dont have a holster for it ,,,, but that is a bloody good idea

pm me if ya want !!!

8th I will cut a hide that is . 6 dm this weekend only if the Saints loose ,, if they win i will be on the piss with the boys ", so me no cut lace ,,, but I will take notice of what lengths and widths I cut from the next hide i do , When i do a whip i dont take much notice of the lenghts of lace i get , but i will cut the hide for a Bosal and i will tell you to the cm if you want !!

I buy my hide for about $90 a dm or there abouts so i would have to agree with roo4u it does pay to cut ya own ,, plus ya know what ya getting and can cut what ya want

I suppose i am lucky ,,, i have never bought or wanted lace untill i made my own ,,, now i make all plus more than i want or need

Dont get me wrong but i dont know what bought stuff is like !!!! But by what i have heard ya all have probs getting the good stuff !!!!

I know we all cant get the good stuff if we are buy-n from the shops but i know we can all have the good stuff if we make our own !!

I have 80lt drums of off cut lace that the leather stores would sell as lace, but i wouldnt , so it all depends on what ya want and what ya can afford

Edited September 24, 2010 by Bevan

[roo4u]

the biggest difference in the precut vs hides that i have seen is the precut has some kind of finish on it that makes it alot harder. leashes i see made from precut i can always tell cuz the braids are not as tight and the knots dont lay as well. i have not seen any of the lace from yknot so maybe theirs is better? all i know is it pays to do it yourself if you possibly can.

[8thsinner]

Thanks bevan, I hope they lose...sorry.

I was trying to work out the math on cutting your own, and came up with this roughly

$90 for your own hide. (bevan)

6mm/1/4" - 50 yards

6mm/1/4" - 50 yards

6mm/1/4" - 50 yards

3mm/1/8" - 50 yards

3mm - 10m

150 yards at 6mm from yknot

$91 for 54 yards - $253 +

$41 for 54 yards = $294

250% mark up on lace

And it's not even stretched or split to the same thickness from the cheapest place I know off, i'll not even go into tandys UK prices at £2.50 per metre...

So basically in two hides you can buy a strander and splitter....

I think the stuff I am after is

$120 - Drum stuffed - Red species - 8sq' Because I want to do quite fine work, I would be likely cutting a maximum 5mm but more likely 4mm on average which should get me 250 yards or so by your size calculations but the larger hide probably adds 20-30 yards more at least

I had no idea the mark up was quite that high so there is no way I am going to be using pre-bought again. I also had no idea you got quite so much out of a hide, I thought most roo skins were quite small in the output.

ROO4u

I also suspect most people using prebought aren't splitting or beveling the lace which adds to the effect you are talking about, like my last whip there, I didn't even split it, I was too concerned with damaging it with my hand made splitter, but I have been splitting all the left overs this week and hopefully I can have something made up soon. I have designers block though, I have all these ideas for it but nothing is fitting me at the moment.

[Bevan]

Sorry 8th but i got my yards and feet mixed up a tad !!!!

I cut a roo hide that was a .6 dm today and i got a 1inch strip 48 feet long

plus a 8 inch ,, 200mm dia circle

I hope i didnt lead you astray mate !!!

In oz we talk metric !!!! oops

Edited September 25, 2010 by Bevan

[Bevan]

Great info, Bevan!!

I also use the RMW for my strands.

I use Dene Williams' skivver so often that I made a belt holster for it. I use it whether it's needed or not. It's great for store-bought lace because it evens out the splices somewhat. I've even used it on 1-1/2" 8 oz straps.

For beveling, I'm still using the old box cutter with the single edged blade and lots of soap.

No doubt there's other, more comfortable and maybe easier tools to use, but that's what I've ended up with in my lace prep pouch.

Gday folks ,, it was a draw today so i will have to do it all again next week ,, shhh dont tell the Boss but i am loving it ,,, i am going to ride this pony as far as i can !!!!

Ok I will try and add some pics of the tools i use and make ,

this is the Dean Williams strand cutter and after using it i bloody love it !!!

Edited September 25, 2010 by Bevan

[ahlamarana]

Another vote for Y-Knot Lace! I became frustrated with the quality of the pre-cut roo from Springfield Leather and decided to try something else. I have been using the lace from Y-Knot for months now and it's an absolute pleasure to work with. The quality of lace has really taken my work to a new level, it just slides right into place with very little effort and hardly even needs to be rolled out. It was mentioned above that some pre-cut lace has a finish on it, this lace does not. It feels exactly like the scraps of veg-tanned roo hide I have for use as wear leather.

Below is my first project using this lace.