Shop Press To Clicker Press

[Shorts]

I purchased a 12T press from Northern Tool a little while ago with the intention of using it as a clicker press. Over the last couple months I got my materials and tools together to get the press modified. I initially planned on using 1/2" plates but after lots of discussion I went to 1". The price was not near as bad as I saw quoted online once I stopped by a steel supply house. By changing plate thickness I've now upped the weight of the component by 20lbs. I didn't trust the chincy washers holding the return springs that were spot welded with ~50lbs of suspended free weight, plus the force the jack applies. So that's why I changed that.

The idea

The process

Materials: 4"x1.5" C-channel, (2) 12"x12"x1" steel plate, 3/8" eyebolts, 2"x2" sq tubing

Edged bottom plate

Cut off spring mount washers, install eyebolts

Grind welds

Drill eye bolt holes (hand drilled, yes, crooked. Hoping the lateral/angle force doesn't kill the eye bolt).

Sq.tubing drilled for eye bolts. Plate and tubing prepped

Welded (used stick 6011, too hot and too fast)

Installed eye bolts

C-channel guides cut

...and welded FCAW (both pieces were beveled and prepped after I found my good metal file)

Hung. I'll get the jack back on there today

I wanted to see what the weight would do to the springs and see if anything fell off during the night. So far everything's in tact and the springs haven't extended from the original measurement.

My critiques on the work:

- I plan to prep and paint the pieces.

- I don't like that crooked eye bolt.

- I didn't true one end of the sq tubing so the C-channel piece is kind of crooked

- I wish I stick welded better. May grind that all out and redo it again at a later date

[dirtclod]

Looks like it should work fine. Wonder if you could just weld up the top bolt hole and redrill the hole ? That might work.

[Shorts]

Looks like it should work fine. Wonder if you could just weld up the top bolt hole and redrill the hole ? That might work.

I'm thinking I might have to do that. A failure of the top plate support could cause some equipment damage in the least, and bodily damage at worst.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Be careful running long beads like that on a part that you want to stay flat. I have warped 2" thick plate just by welding beads on one side. What happens is as the weld bead cools it contracts which puts tension on the metal it is attached to. You can get away with short 1" stringer beads for this application.

Look at the forces, and how they are being applied. If anything, the edges will bend up as all of the force is applied to the center under the jack. If you look at commercial clickers, as well as other presses, you will see gussets used to distribute the force, and maintain rigidity / flatness.

In reality though, even at 12 tons you probably won't have anything to worry about. Like a chain, it will only be as strong as the weakest part.

[Shorts]

Be careful running long beads like that on a part that you want to stay flat. I have warped 2" thick plate just by welding beads on one side. What happens is as the weld bead cools it contracts which puts tension on the metal it is attached to. You can get away with short 1" stringer beads for this application.

Look at the forces, and how they are being applied. If anything, the edges will bend up as all of the force is applied to the center under the jack. If you look at commercial clickers, as well as other presses, you will see gussets used to distribute the force, and maintain rigidity / flatness.

In reality though, even at 12 tons you probably won't have anything to worry about. Like a chain, it will only be as strong as the weakest part.

Yep, this is exactly what happened on the sq. tubing-plate weld. I got a slight bow that I need to work out. You're right I could have run skip welds. I didn't because this was my first time running stick on anything that mattered and I was thinking since I can't glue very consistently or very well I'll just put a lot of glue on it Running too hot didn't help the cause either. I had some 7018 rod (AC machine only) but I couldn't get it dialed right so I stuck with the 6011. I should have clamped that top plate to the bottom plate to help hold her together while the workpiece cooled but I didn't think of it at the time.

The deflection is one reason I went up from 1/2" to 1". I considered 1/2" with gussets but decided it would be less work and welding on top of a steel plate that would bow more easily, especially with my inexperienced welding. The 1" plate, in theory, would be a bit more forgiving of my skill.

Having punched some smaller pieces with the unmodified shop press and 5/8" plate, the 1" is not going to be a concern with a 12T jack.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Clamping wouldn't have helped much, but peening would have.

Depending on how much warpage you have you may need to have it machined flat. A Blanchard grinder would be the best way, but milling will do to. Check with a high school metal shop, or community college to get it done inexpensively, that is if you don't have the machines, or know someone with them. Work like this is good for bartering.

A regular machine shop should be able to deck it flat pretty quick.

When you run the 6011, are you whipping the rod in and out? With 6011 you get the puddle started then pull the rod back some to let it cool then back in with the rod. Not far enough to break the arc, just enough to let the main part of the puddle cool. Also pay attention to the edges of the puddle, and do not pull back until you see the edges fill in with weld material. Once the metal flows to the edges, then you pull the rod back some , and let it cool.

[Shorts]

Clamping wouldn't have helped much, but peening would have.

Depending on how much warpage you have you may need to have it machined flat. A Blanchard grinder would be the best way, but milling will do to. Check with a high school metal shop, or community college to get it done inexpensively, that is if you don't have the machines, or know someone with them. Work like this is good for bartering.

A regular machine shop should be able to deck it flat pretty quick.

When you run the 6011, are you whipping the rod in and out? With 6011 you get the puddle started then pull the rod back some to let it cool then back in with the rod. Not far enough to break the arc, just enough to let the main part of the puddle cool. Also pay attention to the edges of the puddle, and do not pull back until you see the edges fill in with weld material. Once the metal flows to the edges, then you pull the rod back some , and let it cool.

Thanks for the tip. I'll try that next time I'm running the machine. I did weave a little bit (evidence by the undercutting I did on the sq tube). With the radius of the sq tube I was thinking I needed to get down in there on the plate then try to get the puddle up on the side. But when I did I undercut the sqtube.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Undercutting comes from too much heat, or too fast. That was my problem when I first started welding, too fast. Once I got the right darkness shade, and learned to watch the actual puddle edges my welds really improved. It just takes some practice. Having an instructor also helps alot. I took night courses at the local community college .

Keep us updated with your progress.

[Shorts]

Undercutting comes from too much heat, or too fast. That was my problem when I first started welding, too fast. Once I got the right darkness shade, and learned to watch the actual puddle edges my welds really improved. It just takes some practice. Having an instructor also helps alot. I took night courses at the local community college .

Keep us updated with your progress.

Will do - thanks!

I'm working on a cart for my little fluxcore machine. My biggest "oh my" moment was looking at the results & fit of my first angle iron coping attempt LOL The second pair of corners went just fine though. Best of all, my base is square!

I've been thinking of taking some local classes. We'll see though, between work and life I'm wondering if it would get too hectic. But it certainly would be nice to have instruction and see what and how things are suppose to be done.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Shorts

[Shorts]

Just updating the thread. The clicker works fine. Been goofing with it today getting the deck height where I like. What I am seeing is the dies don't like to cut leather when placed on the flesh side. I think that's just the nature of the blade and material. The blade needs to go on the grain side of the piece. Wouldn't be an issue except cutting holsters I'll need a front and back die per holster instead of one die.

[mattsh]

Shorts - do you have pics of the press in action? And maybe a pic of the dies?

[Shorts]

Shorts - do you have pics of the press in action? And maybe a pic of the dies?

No pics. But its fairly simple. You put the leather on the board there, put the die on top and pump the jack handle. I'll see if I can get a pic sometime today.

Looks just like the first pic (put a piece of leather under the die):

Edited November 21, 2010 by Shorts

[jimmybaby]

Wish I had thought of the heavier plates but, in ignorance of what I was doing, I had no idea there would be a problem in that area. My 12T press came from Harbor Freight, the plates from Weaver for their 6T press. In cutting canteen covers with circular dies, both top and bottom plates are sway-backed. If I had had this place to look to, I might have avoided this particular problem. JimB

[K-Man]

Wish I had thought of the heavier plates but, in ignorance of what I was doing, I had no idea there would be a problem in that area. My 12T press came from Harbor Freight, the plates from Weaver for their 6T press. In cutting canteen covers with circular dies, both top and bottom plates are sway-backed. If I had had this place to look to, I might have avoided this particular problem. JimB

How thick are your plates from the Weaver 6T bench top? Mine are 1/2 inch.

Edited November 22, 2010 by K-Man

[Shorts]

Yeah, I originally though of using 1/2" but the guys on another forum convinced me the 1" would be the best bet to avoid much deflection.

My drawing shows 1/2" because I did it prior to the build. I never edited the sketch. I am using 1" plates on my press.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Shorts

[Northmount]

Yeah, I originally though of using 1/2" but the guys on another forum convinced me the 1" would be the best bet to avoid much deflection.

My drawing shows 1/2" because I did it prior to the build. I never edited the sketch. I am using 1" plates on my press.

I know this is an old thread, but is there any chance of getting the pictures replaced or links fixed?

Thanks,

Tom

[15mules]

I would be interested in seeing the pics also. I intend am planning a trip to Springfield Mo. this next weekend. I go to pick up my new sewing machine at SL. I am planning on going to the Grizzly store and getting one of their hydraulic Presses. I think they run a couple hundred dollars and they have a pressure guage built in. I am hopng with the pressure guage (assuming I get my leather close to the same moisture each time?) I can get a more consistent depth of stamp, if using for logo stamps and of course if cutting with a die, it will make little difference. I do plan on using 1" plates. I am still a little up in the air as to how big I really need the plates to be?? 12" x 12" would probably do for most things I guess?? I will try to post some info and pics when I get mine done. Thanks for the info posted thus far, it has been helpful in my planning.

[Northmount]

I would be interested in seeing the pics also. I intend am planning a trip to Springfield Mo. this next weekend. I go to pick up my new sewing machine at SL. I am planning on going to the Grizzly store and getting one of their hydraulic Presses. I think they run a couple hundred dollars and they have a pressure guage built in. I am hopng with the pressure guage (assuming I get my leather close to the same moisture each time?) I can get a more consistent depth of stamp, if using for logo stamps and of course if cutting with a die, it will make little difference. I do plan on using 1" plates. I am still a little up in the air as to how big I really need the plates to be?? 12" x 12" would probably do for most things I guess?? I will try to post some info and pics when I get mine done. Thanks for the info posted thus far, it has been helpful in my planning.

Another thread said they should have used wider plates because some of the cutting dies were too long so they had to do part, then move over for the next bite. I'm thinking of something like 12 x 18" wide. There is lots of bottom support. Might need something to stiffen the top plate somewhat. It will be good to hear your feedback too.

Tom

[King's X]

I recently completed my manual clicker press using a Harbor Freight seal press model. I ended up using two 3/8" steel plates that measured 12" x 15" as my base. I then purchased a 1.5" plastic clicker plate from Tandy Leather Factory. Here is a picture of the PDF instructions that I used. I believe I got them off of LW. I tried to post a picture of the clicker, but for some reason, I am not too savvy with this new format. You can see it on my Facebook page or my BlogSpot in about a week.

Hydraulic_Cutting_Press_ShoeSchool.pdf

[Shorts]

I don't have the build pics anymore. Lost them when photobucket bandwidth topped out and I switched photo host.

Just have this pic:

My plates are 12"x12". As you can see there is a little more width to play with. IIRC I had 16" total. You will be limited by the width/size of your press frame, just a fact. Do like King's X did and use a slightly wider plate - 12x__. That offers flexibility for putting larger punches under there.

Any questions just ask

Edited October 17, 2012 by Shorts

[Shooter McGavin]

I just purchased a 20T press from Harbor freight for 160 dollars on sale. Order 2 pieces of 1" thick, 20"x20" sheared plate for another 200 dollars.

For a total investment of 360 dollars and a few hours of my time grinding and welding, I hope to have a very capable press.

I guess the trick will be knowing when I have cut through the leather. Im afraid I will go to deep and ruin my cutting boards..

[Shorts]

I just purchased a 20T press from Harbor freight for 160 dollars on sale. Order 2 pieces of 1" thick, 20"x20" sheared plate for another 200 dollars.

For a total investment of 360 dollars and a few hours of my time grinding and welding, I hope to have a very capable press.

I guess the trick will be knowing when I have cut through the leather. Im afraid I will go to deep and ruin my cutting boards..

Dang, I hate to think what that unit is gonna weigh when it is all together. A 12x12x1" plate is 40lbs! lol When you weld the crossbar don't use too uch heat. Too much will warp 1" plate.

When I clicker press a piece there is a really loud POP! that tells me when I'm through. Just before the pop the tension on the pump handle gets real hard - the POP! is the cut through. You will cut into the cutting board, that's just a fact. Rotate the board around so that the cuts are dispersed and you aren't making an exact cut in the same place every time for the same patterns. Conider the HDPE as a maintenance item. It'll be up to you to deterine when it will need replacing. As you go you learn the sound and feel of cutting through, just practice. Always center your piece so the crossbar over the plate is evenly applying pressure to the die. This will help te life of your die so it isn't being crushed sideways and stays straight.

Post up photos when you get it all done.

[Shooter McGavin]

Ya each plate is something like 114 pounds lol. Ohand when you shear them it leaves really sharp edges! Good thing I have a 9" angle grinder. Acyually I used to do a lot of metal fab but had to quit due to lung problems. Im excited to be back at it a bit. Last winter I cut my Harley in half and hardtailed it for fun.

Im thinking of popping holes in the corners of the bottom plate for some 1/2" grade 8 threaded rod to use as stops. Not sure if they will really be needed but it sounds like a good idea. I imagine I may need to gusset the plates if I plan to exert that much force on the outer corners though.

I will certainly post pics.