Total Newbis Has A Few Questions

[SimonJester753]

I'm fairly new to leather working. I've made about 6 dog collars and one harness. I thought I could forget about stitching and just use rivets, but now I'm feeling that some projects would come out better if I sew them.

As far as I know, there is machine stitching and hand stitching. There's also the sewing awl. Is the awl considered machine or hand? From what I've observed, the stitching with the awl goes similar to how it goes with a machine, while hand stitching runs differently.

Is one type of stitching more durable than another, (hand vs machine vs awl)?

The tools I have so far for sewing are a sewing awl, an edge groover and thonging chisels.

I'm assuming if I wanted to start, I'd use the edge groover, then use the thonging chisels to set up the hole placement, then poke through both pieces with a scratch awl and then sew through with the sewing awl or hand sew with 2 needles.

I'll probably order a book from Tandy tonight.

Have I made any wrong assumptions?

[js5972]

It sounds like you are on the right track. When you go beyond small projects you will need an overstitch wheel. I like the one with 3 different size wheels. The book will explain most everything. I started out by sewing scraps together for practice. Have fun!

[TwinOaks]

You will probably also want to get a stitching pony/horse if you aren't going to be getting a machine anytime soon. It holds the piece in position while you sew. Use of the 'sewing awl' is entirely up to you, but from my own experience, it's FAR from being a good stitching tool. It'd be good for repairs and such if you were traveling via backpack or horse. If you want good looking items, learn to saddle stitch and get a good diamond awl (that means it has a diamond shaped cross section, not that it's made of or used for diamonds). Few things look as good as a well done hand stitch - probably the closest machines can do to it is the needle and awl machines. Save the time and effort (and hair) and just learn to hand sew things.....at least until you decide to get a machine. Art, one of the sewing machine gurus said it best: Hand sewing helps you save faster for a machine.

[alb]

You are mixing up a few things here. A thonging chisel is used to cut slits for lace, not to mark stitches or punch holes for thread. When stitching pieces of leather together, such as you might with a sewing machine, you use thread, not lace.

I'm not going to discuss using a "sewing awl" with a small spool of thread attached such as Tandy sells, as I've never used one.

Usually when people talk about hand stitching or sewing leather - it is with 2 needles and thread.

To mark the line and provide a channel for the stitches, you can use an edge groover, but it's not required. If you do not use a groover, just mark a line with dividers.

Then, using a stitch marking wheel or a pricking iron or even a ruler and a scratch awl, mark the position of the holes. You do not punch through leather with a scratch awl or the other tools, you are just marking the location of the holes at this point.

Once you've marked the line and hole positions, use an awl and two needles and thread to stitch. One of the Al Stohlman hand stitching or case making books would be helpful to learn the technique.

There are probably videos that would show it as well.

Have fun!

Ann

I'm assuming if I wanted to start, I'd use the edge groover, then use the thonging chisels to set up the hole placement, then poke through both pieces with a scratch awl and then sew through with the sewing awl or hand sew with 2 needles.

I'll probably order a book from Tandy tonight.

Have I made any wrong assumptions?

[SimonJester753]

Thanks for clarifying things.

Has anyone used a carpenters vise as a stitching pony? I've been looking for a bench vise, I do some wood working and I figure if the jaws are lined with wood it could serve as a pony.

[TwinOaks]

Perhaps you could use the carpenter's vice, but you may find the depth of the jaws to be rather limiting. The wood at the jaws is likely to leave impressions on the leather, so you may want to look into stick on felt pads (think door seals). Also, it's important to not put too much pressure on the leather or you will crush it. If you have access to wood working tools, they aren't too difficult to build. There are some patterns here on this forum of you care to search for them, or you could look at pictures of commercially available ones and use that as an inspiration to design your own.

[SimonJester753]

OK. I got my order in from Tandy. I got the book "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather" by Al Stohlman. I also got a variety of needles and 4 oz waxed polyester thread.

Of course, I look in the book and he says don't get pre waxed thread and he's using linen thread.

I guess I'll give it a try any way.

[Dwight]

I normally use my sewing machine for everything I have to sew if it is at all possible, . . . but at time, I have to resort to hand stitching. My motto there is "Hands were made for hamburgers not for stitching", but be that as it may, . . . sometimes stitching needs a hand (no pun intended).

If it is a new project, . . . I like to use a stitch gouger first, . . . then mark my holes, . . . then use an awl to punch the holes, . . . then use what I've always known as a sail needle (it has a wooden handle, a little spool of thread, and a needle out front), . . . and a standard sewing needle to finish the job.

1. Gouge out the stitch line

2. Mark where the stitches go

3. Awl punch the holes (I usually stand up to do this, punch absolutely 90 degrees straight down so all the holes line up on the other side correctly,........ this can also be done with a small drill press, . . . not running of course, . . . with a needle chucked up, . . . it makes really nice, straight, perfect holes for stitching) I cannot stress to greatly how important this step is to be done correctly. If it is not done right, the back side of the project will look like a drunk on meth with a side order smack did the stitching.

4. Go through the awl hole with the sail needle, . . . pull the cut end of the thread through the hole, . . . pull enough thread to go the length of your stitching and back to the starting point.

5. Thread the extra standard sewing needle with the cut end, tie a knot in it so it won't come out of the needle.

6. Pull the sail needle out, move it to the next hole, punch through the awl hole, pull back slightly, drop the extra needle through the loop on the grooved side of the sail needle, . . . pull the sail needle back through the hole, . . . grip both strings and pull the knot back and forth until both strings are taught, . . . center the knot between the pieces being sewn.

7. Finish up by doubling the drop of the second needle through the loop made by the sail needle for your last 4 or 5 stitches.

(see the enclosed rough sketch)

May God bless,

Dwight

[BAD HIDE]

OK. I got my order in from Tandy. I got the book "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather" by Al Stohlman. I also got a variety of needles and 4 oz waxed polyester thread.

Of course, I look in the book and he says don't get pre waxed thread and he's using linen thread.

I guess I'll give it a try any way.

Prewaxed is fine for starting out, and I still use it for colored threads. They usually overdo the wax, so rub it with a piece of brown paper bag a couple times to take some of the wax off and even it out. Other than that, I stitch pretty much just like the book, harness needles and awl in hand. For a makeshift stitching pony, I actually use a Jorgensen wood clamp with padded jaws, and clamp it in a bench vise, and spin it sideways, like so:

I angle it towards me to keep the threads from winding around the screws, and it's tall enough to stitch standing up or sitting on a stool. I'll be making an actual stitching pony when I get around to it, but this has been working so well for most of the stuff I make, and it was practically free since I had the vise and clamp already, so I'm in no hurry. When you're up to getting linen thread, here's where i get mine. I use 6 cord, left twist. $42 sounds like a lot, but 1000 yards goes a looong way.

Edited November 11, 2010 by BAD HIDE

[bkingery]

Prewaxed is fine for starting out, and I still use it for colored threads. They usually overdo the wax, so rub it with a piece of brown paper bag a couple times to take some of the wax off and even it out. Other than that, I stitch pretty much just like the book, harness needles and awl in hand. For a makeshift stitching pony, I actually use a Jorgensen wood clamp with padded jaws, and clamp it in a bench vise, and spin it sideways, like so:

I angle it towards me to keep the threads from winding around the screws, and it's tall enough to stitch standing up or sitting on a stool. I'll be making an actual stitching pony when I get around to it, but this has been working so well for most of the stuff I make, and it was practically free since I had the vise and clamp already, so I'm in no hurry. When you're up to getting linen thread, here's where i get mine. I use 6 cord, left twist. $42 sounds like a lot, but 1000 yards goes a looong way.

BADHIDE, That clamp is ingenious.

[SimonJester753]

Prewaxed is fine for starting out, and I still use it for colored threads. They usually overdo the wax, so rub it with a piece of brown paper bag a couple times to take some of the wax off and even it out. Other than that, I stitch pretty much just like the book, harness needles and awl in hand. For a makeshift stitching pony, I actually use a Jorgensen wood clamp with padded jaws, and clamp it in a bench vise, and spin it sideways, like so:

I angle it towards me to keep the threads from winding around the screws, and it's tall enough to stitch standing up or sitting on a stool. I'll be making an actual stitching pony when I get around to it, but this has been working so well for most of the stuff I make, and it was practically free since I had the vise and clamp already, so I'm in no hurry. When you're up to getting linen thread, here's where i get mine. I use 6 cord, left twist. $42 sounds like a lot, but 1000 yards goes a looong way.

Thanks for the info. Now, what's the deal with left twist vs right twist thread? Would you choose one or the other depending on if you were left-handed or right-handed?

[Skidder]

Tandy sells small stitching ponies/horses and they're probably cheaper than the wood vise in the picture. The Stohlman book will be a great guide and I would venture to say, most people use his methods for most things. I'd avoid the speedy stitcher route, or drilling holes. The Stohlman book explains why the diamond awl is better. Sewing machines are great. I have a Tippman Boss, but still sew almost everything by hand. When I sew by hand, I know I'm not going to miss any stitches, or have any issues. I control the quality. Many will argue that with the right machine, you don't have to worry about any of that so it's preference. Some people prefer leather goods that are hand sewn. My personal OPINION is at some point you're going to have to hand sew. Learn how to hand sew first and once you can run stitches that look almost as good as machine sewn, then get a machine if you want. If you build saddles, you have to hand sew several parts. If you can't make the hand stitching look almost as good as machine sewn, it's really going to look like crap when you have a piece that's hand sewn next to something done by machine. I hand sew because I want to keep getting better and faster. I like the look of well sewn goods and there's something about something handsewn that says the maker was proud and cared. Look at saddles in the store that are mass produced and machine sewn. They cease to be a piece of "art". Of course there are a number of ways to do most things so it comes down to preference, opinion, and what you're goal is.

[bkingery]

I know this is old but everytime i have tried using my stiching awls the thread is always getting cut by the needles unless i prepunch the wholes so I decided that if i'm going to have to punch the dang holes anyway I am just going to handstich everything, I think it looks better anyway, and oh yeah they sell those wood clamps at almost every pawnshop for about ten bucks, thats where i got all mine anyway like I said INGENIOUS, I had ten of them sitting in my garage and never once thought to just put one in a vise, (slapping head while repairing sewing awl size holes in wall)

[Saddlebag]

I punch the holes all the way through as I was never told to do it otherwise and I got some good "larnin" from a very knowledgeable leather worker/saddlemaker.

[bootsmt]

It is twisted right and left because of the way the machine shuttle wraps the main thread around the bobbin thread for the lock stitch

Thanks for the info. Now, what's the deal with left twist vs right twist thread? Would you choose one or the other depending on if you were left-handed or right-handed?

Edited December 20, 2010 by bootsmt

[SimonJester753]

It is twisted right and left because of the way the machine shuttle wraps the main thread around the bobbin thread for the lock stitch

So if I hand stitch, it shouldn't matter?

[bkingery]

So if I hand stitch, it shouldn't matter?

It shouldn,t just be sure that you always lead you front stitch the same way every stitch, either front first and down or back first and front on top, if that makes any sense cuz i think i just confused myself????

B

[reddevil76]

So if I hand stitch, it shouldn't matter?

It doesn't matter, but it does matter that you always use the same needle in front. If right needel front, then it is right front all the way. So the thread sits the same way throughout.

Like the others said, there are many ways to mark a stitching line. The groover is used, only when you want the stitches to sit slightly below the surface, so that it doesn't get rubbed so much during the product's lifetime.

If you are using hand tools to pre-punch stitching holes, it is very important to keep it upright so that the holes on the other side lines up too. One thing i do is to keep a firm pressure on my pricking iron before hitting it with a mallet, so that it doesn't bounce. And yeah, eyeball the angle, keep it straight down, before hitting.

And always use a striking surface beneath to protect your pricking iron. I use soft wood, As I found Tandy's poundo boards too soft, and cause the pricking iron to slant as it goes down through many layers of leather.