Ever Get An Order Like This?

[gregintenn]

I'm not complaining, but this sure seems odd to me. I have a few holsters displayed in a local gun store. A week or so ago, a guy bought one, and asked to have two more made. Same style, same color; everything. Just for different guns. I made them, and he came in today to pick them up, and ordered four more; just like the others, except for different model guns. Some of these would interchange. He also stated that he'd have about 8 more after this. His money's good, and he seems very happy with my work, but this just smells weird to me. What say you?

[Aggiebraider]

Maybe he likes to have a holster for every gun. If he is willing to keep spending his money, I would keep taking it lol

[katsass]

I'm not complaining, but this sure seems odd to me. I have a few holsters displayed in a local gun store. A week or so ago, a guy bought one, and asked to have two more made. Same style, same color; everything. Just for different guns. I made them, and he came in today to pick them up, and ordered four more; just like the others, except for different model guns. Some of these would interchange. He also stated that he'd have about 8 more after this. His money's good, and he seems very happy with my work, but this just smells weird to me. What say you?

My guess is that he has some kind of outlet for them and is making some money off of your product. Of course I'm a rather cynical old guy........(some may use another term). JMHO Mike

Edited November 12, 2010 by katsass

[Shorts]

My guess is that he has some kind of outlet for them and is making some money off of your product. Of course I'm a rather cynical old guy........(some may use another term). JMHO Mike

This was my thought as well. I've received a few emails for orders that gave me these gut feelings. I respectfully decline orders that don't smell right to me (no need to burn a bridge). They may be perfectly legit and if that's the case, well, I guess I lost out. But I look at it this way, if I'm always booked with orders anyway, did I really need that person's order?

I won't have someone artificially driving up my price. If its worth that much then I'll move my price accordingly. My customers who come directly to me should get the benefit of order position and price over a retailer. If a retailer wants to stock my stuff, then he should come to me and we can come to a more formal contract.

Might be interesting to find out if he's selling these as his own. It isn't unheard of for that to happen.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Shorts

[Spinner]

This was my thought as well. I've received a few emails for orders that gave me these gut feelings. I respectfully decline orders that don't smell right to me (no need to burn a bridge). They may be perfectly legit and if that's the case, well, I guess I lost out. But I look at it this way, if I'm always booked with orders anyway, did I really need that person's order?

I won't have someone artificially driving up my price. If its worth that much then I'll move my price accordingly. My customers who come directly to me should get the benefit of order position and price over a retailer. If a retailer wants to stock my stuff, then he should come to me and we can come to a more formal contract.

Might be interesting to find out if he's selling these as his own. It isn't unheard of for that to happen.

It's worth it to ask, even if it's just to know. My mom just recently received an order for a sewing item that she sells (wholesale items she sells retail and has a contract to do so) for 100 pieces. The price is very low so it wasn't a big deal, figured it was for a club.

So two weeks later (yesterday) she gets an order from the same person for 300. My mom asked and the lady was upfront and said she's reselling them at a small mark-up in her little brick & mortar store. After thinking about it, my mom is comfortable with it because she set a fair price and the lady is in a different country so local sales won't be affected.

It's not quite the same as a handmade item but the idea is. Ask him straight out and see what the deal is. If he's reselling them then it could be an issue.

On the other hand, are they orders you would have gotten otherwise and are you happy with the price received? Lots of things to consider...good luck with it!

[gregintenn]

Thanks for the answers. I'm pleased with the price I'm getting. I'm also happy if he's making money on them. I don't really believe that is the case, but I suppose it could be. It just hit me as odd, and I was afraid I was missing something obvious that could potentially be a problem. I understand that the guy works for someone kind of well known, and they like to have a holster for each gun. Perhaps they were afraid I'd inflate the price for someone wealthy? I dunno. Frankly, I just am not good enough to command a lot of interest.

[Rayban]

You make him holster(s), he pays you for it....whats so odd about that?

[Shorts]

You make him holster(s), he pays you for it....whats so odd about that?

Fair question.

I think for myself, I don't want my product looking like a retail product. I want my product a specific, personal item. It is how I want my name displayed. Taking a lesson from Gene Simmons, it's a brand. Control your item so you can control the image it projects.

"You will only get this item first hand from me".

Or second hand from a customer who let it go with the gun he sold. The great part is the original customer comes back to get leather for the new gun he just bought.

Maybe the above sounds a bit snobbish. Act like you want to be treated. Set up the environment to foster the result you want. I want my stuff to command a price that I choose when I choose it (of course taking into account the market forces). A price that reflects the quality, and reflects my time and skill that is in it. That just doesn't happen overnight. It takes cultivating to continue to keep moving items up.

Anyway, I think it's just about the way you would like to conduct your business and how you prefer your items to be seen. Nothing wrong with how a person chooses, just know what you want to do, why you want to do it and go for it.

[Ferg]

Fair question.

I think for myself, I don't want my product looking like a retail product. I want my product a specific, personal item. It is how I want my name displayed. Taking a lesson from Gene Simmons, it's a brand. Control your item so you can control the image it projects.

"You will only get this item first hand from me".

Or second hand from a customer who let it go with the gun he sold. The great part is the original customer comes back to get leather for the new gun he just bought.

Maybe the above sounds a bit snobbish. Act like you want to be treated. Set up the environment to foster the result you want. I want my stuff to command a price that I choose when I choose it (of course taking into account the market forces). A price that reflects the quality, and reflects my time and skill that is in it. That just doesn't happen overnight. It takes cultivating to continue to keep moving items up.

Anyway, I think it's just about the way you would like to conduct your business and how you prefer your items to be seen. Nothing wrong with how a person chooses, just know what you want to do, why you want to do it and go for it.

I fully agree with your thoughts on this topic. Do not portray "SNOB" to your customers. Portray yourself as someone who gives exactly what people want only better than they expected. Your monetary profits will soar as well as your self esteem. Be happy, love your family and life and enjoy yourself.

ferg

[Reaper]

Second hand new holster with ? for a warranty.

[Shorts]

Second hand new holster with ? for a warranty.

What are you asking and who are you directing the question to?

[TwinOaks]

My thoughts exactly, Reaper. I hate to be the negative voice here, but you really do need to ask him about it. If by chance he's reselling your product as YOUR product, and making a little more on it, no big deal, it's called enterprise. But, what if he's changing a little something and selling it as his own? Maybe obliterating your maker's mark? Or worse, claiming it as his own work? How about if he's taking the credit for your work, makes a questionable change to the holster, leaves your maker's mark in place and somebody gets hurt because of it? Guess who's getting sued. OR, since he's asking for holsters for a lot of different types of guns, could he be getting you to do the research and design phase to develop the holsters, then sending them to a sweat shop to be knocked off? If nothing else, I would have to ask him why, and if he won't tell you, then refuse any more business with him. If it's all legit, and he just has that many guns...offer more customization for a small premium, and a direct contract for production.

DO NOT BE AFRAID TO ASK FOR MORE MONEY FOR YOUR PRODUCT.

The true value of your work is NOT what you think it's worth, it's how much money a person is willing to pay for it. I think it was John Henry (Johanna's late hubby) that said the right price for an item is when the customer gets a pained look on their face, but still pulls out their money. A perfect personal example: A few months ago, I built a left hand paddle holster for a model 29 S&W and a matching stock wrap for a shotgun. The customer finally came in and picked up the items after being on the road working for 4 months. Two days later, my friend at the gun store called me to ask if $100 was enough for making another stock wrap, because that's what he quoted the customer. I was a bit shocked. I was thinking somewhere in the $50-$60 range. He quoted $100 and the customer jumped at the opportunity. I'm happy to build a stock wrap for $100!!!!! If you have someone selling your products for you (guy in the gun store) that knows the customers better.....LET them set prices. Why did I wander so far with the example? Well, if the person buying multiple holsters from you really likes them that much, he's probably just happy as a lark to get them for the price he's paying. See if he'll go for a little more money for a little more customization on HIS holsters, and buy directly. Either way, as the maker, you need to know what's going on with your product.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

How much are you selling these holsters for? You may be well below the market level. I would expect that they are above the retail prices for mass produced holsters.

It does sound like he may be flipping these. This may, or may not, be a problem. It depends on how he is representing them. If they are in fact for a "well known" person I would like to know, so that I could say that So and So has bought some of my work, and get an autographed picture to prove it. That could lead to more sales, and possibly a better price for you.

Don't sell yourself short, you are probably worth more than you think. Part of the problem is that for many of us we charge what we think is fair, because we know how the item is made. We think it is easy to do, while most of the customers would have no clue as to where to even start a project like this, People hire craftsmen like us to do things that they cannot, or do not, want to do themselves.

When I had my machine shop we charged what we thought was a fair price. Later on when I was working for the Jelly Belly Candy Co. as a mechanic, I found out I was never charging enough. For me, machined, and welded items are easy to make.

Example, the purchasing agent asked me if I could have made an item that they just bought. I looked at it, and it was just a small 5" square plate of 5/8" thick aluminum with some very basic machining done to it. I told him that I would have had a hard time telling him $100, and it would have been more like $50-$60 ea. I figured it would only take around 30 minutes to make. He told me that they just paid $300 ea for 20 of them, and that was less than the factory wanted. Me = $1,000-$2,000 Other shop $6,000 --- who do you want to be for the same amount of work? They have since gone to a different style of printer, or I would have looked into making some of those for them at that price.

As noted before about pricing. I read in one of my gunsmithing books on how to set a price. The older smith told the younger one to never give a set price. Example; For installing screw in choke tubes in a standard fixed choke barrel. You watch the customer, and start by saying something like , that was $50 for the install. No reaction. Installed choke tube of your choice $20. Still no reaction. Installed new front sight bead $10. No reaction. Touching up the blueing $10. A reaction is seen. Stop, and add it up.

Each person has a different perceived value of your work. The gunsmith I worked for lost some business because he didn't charge enough. A guy who owns a $10,000 Perazzi , or $70, 000 + Holland and Holland, as opposed to the owner of an $80 bolt action Mossberg , is expecting things to cost MORE than less. It is perceived value. How often do you see Ferrari owners at the local Jiffy Lube? Oil is oil, it really doesn't matter who is putting it in the engine. The only difference is that Jiffy Lube won't give you a glass of champagne , and pump you ego while you wait.

Edited November 14, 2010 by BIGGUNDOCTOR

[gregintenn]

Thank you all so much for all the input. It helps a lot. I'm glad to get a variety of differing viewpoints. I guess I was just overthinking it. One of you asked about the price. I'm getting $40 each for basic pancake holsters with a basketweave pattern on them. They don't take a lot of material or labor to make. As this is just a hobby, I'm very pleased with the money.

Edited November 14, 2010 by gregintenn

[TwinOaks]

You can look at our various websites to see our base prices, but I have a feeling that at $40, the guy doing the buying is getting them while the getting is good. At that price, I don't blame him, and if you are happy with the money, then it's all good.

[olliesrevenge]

...I have a feeling that at $40, the guy doing the buying is getting them while the getting is good. At that price, I don't blame him...

+1 to the quote above.

I wont presume to try and tell anyone how to run their business, but I think alot of the good "one person operation" holster makers undercharge for their work. If you look out into the holster marketplace you can find some interesting comparables that you can use as a guide. For example; there is a certain "Breed" of popular holster out there that consists of a molded piece of kydex riveted onto a slab of flat leather that sells for $70. This particular holster works great & is comfortable, but leaves a bit to be desired in the detail department, with it's relatively unfinished edges and exposed hardware on the back, and is somewhat overpriced IMO. But hey, marketing is half the battle right? Given that precedent (and others), I think $60 - $80 for a well executed leather holster is totally reasonable, particularly if it has features like decorative stamping and the like.

I'm not in business (yet), but since I bought a Boss I have cranked out a bunch of holsters for friends, like the two below that I sold for $40 apiece... & I made it clear that $40 was the "Super Friend" price.

FWIW

[gregintenn]

Thanks for the suggestions. I get $45 for an IWB, and $40 for a pancake. I figure I have about $5 in materials, and about 2 hours labor in a pancake. That comes to $17.50 for my labor. This is time I'd spend goofing off anyway. At this price, I find I keep just enough business that I don't get behind very far, but rarely run out of something to do. $17.50 per hour for doing something I enjoy seems to me like I'm stealing. I expect that most of you make better quality holsters than I do, therefore commanding a higher price. I sure do value each of your opinions. Thanks again. Greg

[billymac814]

As long as your happy then all is well. It would seem to me that your price is low though. Mine start at 55.00 and go up from there for a small holster. I probably have a bit over 2 hours in each one and use less than a square foot of leather plus dye, thread and finish products so the materials are probably about 6-7 dollars a piece. I don't charge for shipping either so there's about 3 dollars. I also keep in mind all the time spent checking emails, maintaining a website, phone calls to order supplies, getting shipping supplies, going to the post office, etc. It all adds up and takes away from the profit, but is all a necassary part of the puzzle.

Either way you already have holsters at a gun shop so it's not really any different if another guy is selling them, as long as he isn't making changes to them or misrepresenting them but he should be upfront about it. I do have a guy that is well on his way to getting a holster for every gun he owns which is a lot. Every time I give him a new one he starts thinking about the next and places an order so just about every 6 weeks he gets a new one. Best thing to do is just ask, can't hurt to know even if it doesn't matter.