Would You Sell Your "not-So-Perfect" Holsters?

[Rayban]

Seems like , to me anyways, it's pretty easy to end up with imperfections when using a motorized stitching machine. One little stitch slanted just so can screw up the entire line.....so it's not "perfect" but still solid and functional in every other way.

Sometimes they are hard to see, but like someone mentioned earlier, because we know it's there, it glares at us with an ugly frown.

I found out right away that using a machine takes more concentration than hand stitching...quite a challenge for me.

Also, if we want to, we can find "imperfections" in just about everybody's work.

[bluesman1951]

Nope ,not ever no way no how . If it dont meet my standards its destroyed ,cut up used as backing for the whole punch . Never leaves the door ever. Its good enough to show the world or its destroyed period . Bill

[SooperJake]

I never make mistakes...but I do make a boat load of engineering changes.

[SooperJake]

On a more serious note, who determins what is perfect? I was just looking at a VERY high-end custom holster pictured on a VERY well known and highly regarded maker's site, familiar to many of you here, and I found a defect in the holster as pictured.

It seems like you just look at leather a little cross-eyed and it leaves a mark of some kind. Is that an imperfect product after that?

Years ago, when I turned wood for a living, I'd screw up and poke a hole through the bottom of a bowl or hurl one off the lathe or, sometimes, for no reason apparent- they'd explode. Some of these were exotic woods of considerable cost to me. I piled all these up in a box, and when we went camping on Labor day weekend, I cooked a Porterhouse steak over them and, in effect, ate my mistakes. I cannot tell you how many times I was asked by friends and family to sell them one of my defective bowls. The looks I got while camping, as I burned my work, ranged from grins to utter outrage.

So, in regards to this topic, I am torn between two camps. On the one hand I see everything that is wrong with my work and don't want to let it out of the shop. On the other hand, I know that nothing is ever perfect, and people project all levels and manners of "values" on objects, which is beyond our control. They also find something wrong if they look for it hard enough.

In the words of Jiminy Cricket, " Always let your conscience be your guide."

[immiketoo]

Love the bowl story! I just threw out the second holster I made for a charity event because something about had been bugging me and I'm starting over. Despite the fact that I'm not making anything on this rig, its going to have my name on it and I can't let it go out in that condition. So, while I understand everyone's view, I'm going with if I'm not satisfied, it stays home.

[Redrock64]

Being fairly new in buisness I am allways in the process of building a reputation of service and quality products, so for now I will not sell a product that is of less quality than I am capible of producing. I destroy most mess ups, but keep some there may come a point at which I will sell seconds, but for know I don't feel I can afford it.

[chiefjason]

For me, it all depends on the mistake. And for me, the price point has an effect too. I'm doing this on the side with no real reputation to stake my price on. I won't sell something that I don't trust. But every holster that is made 99% by hand is going to have some flaws in it. At this point the only thing done to one of my holsters mechanically is I use a dremel to square the edges. Other than that it's all by hand. And since I'm not perfect neither are my holsters.

That said, I have thrown several to the side. The first one I was going to toss had an absolutely horrific dye job. I let it sit for a week or so. Then I tried to strip the dye off. When it did not come off completely I went to try and buff it off. What I ended up with was a really cool antiqued look. That one sold quick. One I tried, and failed, to recycle it into a holster for my wife. One sat in a shelf until a buddy got his hands on it and he absolutely loved it. I explained what I did not like about it and he told me to shut and and let him buy it. He got it REALLY cheap BTW. One is in a bag of holsters I use to show folks what I am doing. Without a gun in it you can't tell the stitch line is too far out. I just did a demo for my wife that has some horrific flaws in it. I just got in too much of a hurry. I finished it to let her wear it enough to see if she likes it. If she does she gets a new one.

And a related story. I posted some pics a while back and got a lot of critique on them. I had already tossed one in the process of making those. I shipped them out and the customer really liked them. So most of the time we are out own worst critics. And as an artist, I can point out nearly all of the flaws in my artwork. While non artists just stare at it in disbelief and think it's perfect.

[Mark Garrity]

I'm with bluesman1951 on this. No, no-way, never. Any blem or second gets cut and trashed, and here's why: Ask yourself this question about every piece that leaves your shop - would I want this to be the sole representation of my work? You may be upfront and honest and sell the holster as a second at a discounted price to a customer, but you don't know where that holster is going to end up. You know its not perfect, and he knows its not perfect; but down the road he sells his gun and holster as a package deal, or sells the holster on E-Bay, etc. Now new owner that doesn't know it's a second because your customer forgot to tell him is showing it off at the local gunshop or range to someone who knows leatherwork, or has a collection of holsters from other known makers for comparison, and knows what to look for, and he sees the flaws and wonders how you let this out of your shop. Do you get my point? Do you want a blemmed holster being the sole representation of your work to someone being exposed to it for the first time, who has no way of knowning it was sold as such, and then gets the impression that it is a collective example of what you do?

[SooperJake]

Someone that makes and sells the perfect holster...please post pictures of it. I want to see how far I have to go before I get to that level of quality.

[Shooter McGavin]

I've made many hundreds of holsters, none have been perfect.

[Rayban]

I've made many hundreds of holsters, none have been perfect.

Thank you for saying that Shooter.

[SooperJake]

An interesting read, and somewhat paralleling this topic to a degree, is the "Terms of Sale" found on Aker's site. Then, go read the Magneson-Moss Warrenty Act of 1975.

[renegadelizard]

I have found that alot of seconds can be firsts with a bit more work...i made a matching set of western rigs and for some reason..lol..the dye didnt take well along the edge...it could have had something to do with the sloppy gum trag job i did, but i digress...they looked like crap...i was about to toss them when i thought, hey, vinegaroon works all the way through...i called the customer and told him the project was coming along well but i was just struck with a really cool idea, and if he didnt mind, i would like to upgrade his set, at no extra charge...he was very pleased...i grooned and did a border stitch all the way around...he is one of my best customers now...i just did another matched set for him...last night, i looked at a holster i am making for a young man who just got his first pistol, and who also works in one of our larger gun shops in the area...the more i looked at the holster, the more i hated the blotchy look of the stitch lines on the reinforcement piece....having never torn down and rebuilt a holster before, i was a little timid...but after maybe an hour of extra work redesigning the piece, and another 30 minutes reassembling everything, i am now happy with it, and i can sell it for full price without any reservations...some seconds are beyond help, those i nail above my bench to remind me not to do it again...and that is often worth more to me than the money froma second..

Edited November 27, 2012 by renegadelizard

[Rayban]

I have found that alot of seconds can be firsts with a bit more work...i made a matching set of western rigs and for some reason..lol..the dye didnt take well along the edge...it could have had something to do with the sloppy gum trag job i did, but i digress...they looked like crap...i was about to toss them when i thought, hey, vinegaroon works all the way through...i called the customer and told him the project was coming along well but i was just struck with a really cool idea, and if he didnt mind, i would like to upgrade his set, at no extra charge...he was very pleased...i grooned and did a border stitch all the way around...he is one of my best customers now...i just did another matched set for him...last night, i looked at a holster i am making for a young man who just got his first pistol, and who also works in one of our larger gun shops in the area...the more i looked at the holster, the more i hated the blotchy look of the stitch lines on the reinforcement piece....having never torn down and rebuilt a holster before, i was a little timid...but after maybe an hour of extra work redesigning the piece, and another 30 minutes reassembling everything, i am now happy with it, and i can sell it for full price without any reservations...some seconds are beyond help, those i nail above my bench to remind me not to do it again...and that is often worth more to me than the money froma second..

This reminds me of what a very wise man once told me, "you're only as good as how well you can fix your ____ ___ (oopsies)"

Just this morning I'm stitching up a belt on my machine....there must have been a kink in the spool of thread, I heard the knot go through the needle and had to shut er down.....cut off the frazzled thread, take some apart, and continue stitching after about a 5 minute pit stop.....the result...is it "perfect" ?...no, was I gonna scrap it? Heck no!!...I got r fixed and only a well trained eye can it.....and only if they look for it.

Stuff happens.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Rayban

[RoosterShooter]

Depending on the problem ... I might consider selling a 'second' as a 'Blemished' holster.

It would all depend on what the problem was. If it was MY mess-up I would chalk it down to experience, and start over with a fresh piece of leather.

However, I have completed holsters that were A+ on craftsmanship, but when I went to oil them they ended up showing an imperfection in the leather that wasn't visible beforehand. For instance, I just completed a perfect holster, and began rubbing it down with neatsfoot oil. After 2 light coats I noticed a dark spot beginning to show up in an area that had been the same color when making it.

In this instance, I would mark the holster, somewhere inconspicuous, as a 'Blemished' or 'Second Quality' holster, and sell it at a discount.

If it were a cut that I made that was off, or a stitch that didn't make the cut ... I'd save it for my personal holster or start over.

Edited November 27, 2012 by RoosterShooter

[Samalan]

Never

[Imapeopleperson]

They go in the box and school of hard knocks. I don't think letting the bad stuff go out is good advertisement. just my 2 cents.

[Skwerl]

Not everyone agrees but I learned many years ago when building homes and doing many decorative items in wood plus other materials, you never ever let anyone

have ownership of a screwed up piece of work. That covers freebies or less than normal price points.

My .02

ferg

I agree 100%. It only takes one bad piece to make people think you make crap. Don't take the chance.

[Rayban]

Not everyone agrees but I learned many years ago when building homes and doing many decorative items in wood plus other materials, you never ever let anyone

have ownership of a screwed up piece of work. That covers freebies or less than normal price points.

My .02

ferg

So do you tear the house down and start over or do you fix the screw ups?

Edited February 15, 2013 by Rayban

[Frank]

Another one of my theories behind selling a "second" especially when it comes to gun leather is that more than likely after the first day of use, you'd never be able to tell it was a "second." I'm tough on my own gun leather. After using it the first day, I guarantee it already has scratches and visible wear. You can't honestly tell me that someone would think you work is crap after someone else wore in the woods, on horseback, in shoots, etc. These kinds of things always happen to gun leather. If someone bought the holster you made from someone else, it is used and they'd more than likely never even know.

Here is a photo of an HH Heiser Holster, The skirt is attached by a rivet, it's not actually a 1 piece holster. This is an original holster that was not repaired. Was this a second? Quite possibly. Did they want to save on leather by using the scraps for the skirts? Also a good possibility. Either way, most of us would consider that a "second", but Heiser sold it like that. I have seen several of these holsters, just like this one.

The other thing is that each person has their own threshold of what constitutes a "second." Would what I consider a second, in fact be top quality for someone else? Definitely and vice versa.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Frank

[Josh Ashman]

I think there is a difference between "fatal flaws" and things we would do differently next time. I've sure never built anything that was "perfect" and my very best work from a few years ago isn't nearly as good as what I make now. If I make a major mistake I toss it, if it's a minor mistake I fix it as best as possible and move on. Do the best job you can and get better with each one. That's my 2 cents.

[Rayban]

I think there is a difference between "fatal flaws" and things we would do differently next time. I've sure never built anything that was "perfect" and my very best work from a few years ago isn't nearly as good as what I make now. If I make a major mistake I toss it, if it's a minor mistake I fix it as best as possible and move on. Do the best job you can and get better with each one. That's my 2 cents.

I use this often but it's so true in any trade....you're only as good as how well you fix your screw-ups.

[Ferg]

Rayban,

Your query is not up to your standards of logical thinking, I will answer it anyway.

I remember a home we were repairing after a Tornado tore through our area. I had a number of workers, we were extremely busy. I had left several to apply a shingle roof on this home. When I checked on the job they had almost finished the roof but one entire side had been screwed up. They removed the shingles and redone them correctly, ON THEIR TIME!

ferg