Fiebing's Dye Tests & Notes

[Spinner]

Here are some findings from color tests I did tonight I thought I would share as I haven't heard much on two (new to me) colors I tried out.

First, some background...a customer asked for a tank bib as part of a barter exchange we did. He sent me the artwork, which I was excited to do. However he wanted something similar in color.

His stipulation was that the red celtic pattern be removed and the 'ring' be made more simply to reflect aged, cracked stone.

(the aging isn't to evident in the small photo but it's simply 80 grit sandpaper pressed into semi-dry leather with a modelling sppon to create pockmarks and an uneven surface)

Here's the project and supplied artwork:

Now, seeing a light gray with dark areas wouldn't be a problem usually but when looking at the original un-enlarged pic, the stone is granite like gray with tonal changes of white & black.

Naturally I went looking for white and grey dye and found Fiebing makes both colors. I ordered them up and upon opening the boxes the first thing I found was a different type of bottle...

They are glass instead of the normal plastic. Now I know Fiebing used to use glass for all of their dyes but have since changed. Why would these stay in glass?

That tells me one of two things, either really old dye or it's something that needs to be sealed better/could react with plastic or some other odd thing. Upon doing a few tests from my painting days I found that the white and grey dyes are

actually not the normal spirit based thin dyes. When using new dyes/paints, it's always a good idea to put a bit in a cup and test cleaning solutions to find out what you're dealing with (unless it's clearly marked).

On the Fiebing site, I find out that the white and gray can not be mixed with any other colors as they are not compatible, confirming my suspicions. Turns out they seem to be a hybrid, as alcohol makes the pigment coagulate but

paint thinner will clean them up nicely. However they come thin enough out of the bottle to spray through an airbrush as is.

So I start a couple of tests, brushed on, airbrushed, on bare leather, on top of another color, dip a towel in alcohol and rub over the colors, etc.

For starters, the colors not being alcohol based also resist alcohol wiping. This is good as it makes prep for nearby uncolored areas easy. Unfortunately it also means using a different solvent for clean-up of brushes, etc.

They in fact blend horribly, but that was expected based on the info from Fiebing. The do on the other hand, spray over each other nicely. The gray is more of a Battleship gray so it's likely darker than most will need including myself.

Being based on a thicker non-alcohol pigment, they also seal the leather slightly. This means that any color like Black, that is sprayed on top of them will look different than the same color sprayed on a bare leather nearby.

The White dye is also a little tricky. When wiped on it comes out more like a wash than a dye. Sprayed on is definitely the better method for this color. Even using my airbrush at max mix is still took 3-4 coats to get what I would consider a decent base coat.

I would imagine if you're looking for a totally solid white that it would take 7-8 good coats. If you don't need to blend and are simply looking for a white area in a piece, thinned acrylic may be a better choice. If a large area of white is needed next to other colors, go with the dye

and plan for many decent applications. Oxalic Acid before the color to lighten the leather color is definitely recommended with the white.

(sorry about the picture color...the pic has a slight bluish tint I couldn't remove all the way in my editor)

So end result is that by using the white as a base and then mist spraying (more air- less dye) with a dual action airbrush, you can achieve a nice granite like color with the Fiebing white and gray dyes

however, you'll want to make sure that adjacent areas are masked really well as darker color spirit based dyes will not cover them the same as bare leather. You'll also want to make sure to dedicate paint cups to these two colors

as the clean-up process will be slightly different and a bit more work than traditional dyes. Make doubly sure to clean your airbrush with paint thinner, instead of alcohol, after using them and before using a different color.

Side note but related - USMC Black is a great color. It appears to be a richer shade of black than the regular Black colored dye; so much so that I plan on switching to it for future black colored projects (80% of my business).

Hope this helps someone else, I definitely learned something new tonight!

Chris

Edited January 20, 2011 by Spinner

[mendedbowl]

Thanks for posting this! great info.

ken

[Spinner]

Thanks for posting this! great info.

ken

My pleasure Ken, glad someone found it helpful.

[bkingery]

Dude you did a CTR ring, cool, thanks for the info, one thing about the USMC is it takes alot of rubbiing before it quits "shedding" color on stuff and yourself, I spray coat mine with acrylic sealer and it seems to do ok after that.

ps where can i get your burnishers at.

Peace out

Bryan

[Spinner]

Dude you did a CTR ring, cool, thanks for the info, one thing about the USMC is it takes alot of rubbiing before it quits "shedding" color on stuff and yourself, I spray coat mine with acrylic sealer and it seems to do ok after that.

ps where can i get your burnishers at.

Peace out

Bryan

Hey Bryan,

Yeah, it does take quite a bit of rubbing if shot all at once I found. My best results with it were out of a prevail sprayer in 3-4 coats. Wiping on took a lot of rubbing to make it quite shedding color.

Sad thing is I was really excited about it but after 4 projects I find that I get a better overall black from regular Fiebing Black but if I get the control right, USMC is a deeper black. Odd.

My burnishers can be purchased here: http://www.threemutt...Burnishers.html at least until I finish the new burnisher specific website next week. The work never ends!

The CTR shield was for some Christmas presents (Quad covers) that didn't end up happening for my nieces and nephews due to a miscommunication with my sister. One did get finished though so it will be a birthday present.

Chris

Edited February 2, 2011 by Spinner

[bkingery]

That looks very nice and it would sell like hotcakes here in mo-mo land.(take it easy people I'm born and raised just not active) . Why did you use a Prevail instead of you Badger? I've been debateing on getting an airbrush or a prevail so it would be interesting to know.

Peace

Bryan

[Spinner]

yeah, my family is Mormon (obviously) but I'm the black sheep. My sister keeps telling me to make more of them and make them available so I might give it a shot one of these days.

I used the prevail due to the coverage differences. An airbrush has a max spray pattern of 3" and only 2" with the high-end ones whereas the prevail has a 4" spray pattern and doesn't atomize the dye as much so for dark colors & deeper penetration applications it actually does a better job. The more paint and dye is atomized, the faster it dries which means - on the surface. So for items that are handled more often like book covers and bags the prevail wins out of the two for longevity of color. For control, blends & multi-color spraying the airbrush definitely wins.

[jasonsmith]

You will want to try out the Fiebings Pro Oil Black. It is a deeper/darker black than the USMC Black. The USMC Black looks like it has a redish tint to it. And the Pro Oil black doesn't stiffen up the leather like what can happen with the USMC Black and other dyes. The best thing about the Pro Oil black is there is hardly any buffing at all.

[Spinner]

You will want to try out the Fiebings Pro Oil Black. It is a deeper/darker black than the USMC Black. The USMC Black looks like it has a redish tint to it. And the Pro Oil black doesn't stiffen up the leather like what can happen with the USMC Black and other dyes. The best thing about the Pro Oil black is there is hardly any buffing at all.

Wish I could, I have tried the Pro-Oil Brown before when I was in Colorado. Unfortunately something about the pro-Oil dyes make them restricted for shipment to California.

[jasonsmith]

Wish I could, I have tried the Pro-Oil Brown before when I was in Colorado. Unfortunately something about the pro-Oil dyes make them restricted for shipment to California.

Maybe you could try getting it off of ebay from a seller who doesn't mention non-shipment to California in their listing. Worst case is after you win it, they say they can't ship it and refund your money if you had already paid for it. Then you could try another seller.

If it is excluded from California, then it must be good stuff.

Edited February 2, 2011 by jasonsmith

[msdeluca]

Wish I could, I have tried the Pro-Oil Brown before when I was in Colorado. Unfortunately something about the pro-Oil dyes make them restricted for shipment to California.

Great info and thanks. Your work is incredible.

I escaped California four years ago... tired of being protected and directed...