ramrod Report post Posted January 31, 2011 well, the title says it all.................. i have some questions about the machine i acquired. it's a singer 211g155. it was given to me this past week and i haven't set it up yet. it was apparently used in an awning shop. i'm wondering what the maximum thickness of leather can be sewn on it? and how about the needle and thread size recommendations for leather? is this a compound feed that was mentioned earlier? is it generally a good machine? i also have a singer 591 that was used in a local clothing factory. it seems to be a real beast and is able to punch through anything, but i've never gotten it to run perfectly.....skipped stitches and all. i got a new motor so it can run on household current (replacing the 3 phase motor that came with it). can you tell me anything about this one? thank you for any info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ferg Report post Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) well, the title says it all.................. i have some questions about the machine i acquired. it's a singer 211g155. it was given to me this past week and i haven't set it up yet. it was apparently used in an awning shop. i'm wondering what the maximum thickness of leather can be sewn on it? and how about the needle and thread size recommendations for leather? is this a compound feed that was mentioned earlier? is it generally a good machine? i also have a singer 591 that was used in a local clothing factory. it seems to be a real beast and is able to punch through anything, but i've never gotten it to run perfectly.....skipped stitches and all. i got a new motor so it can run on household current (replacing the 3 phase motor that came with it). can you tell me anything about this one? thank you for any info. This might give you some needed info. Also: type into google: singer 591. Lots and lots information on this machine. ferg Edited January 31, 2011 by 50 years leather Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted January 31, 2011 In addition to Ferg's chart for the model 211, whatever clearance the pressor feet have, with the lifter on the back raised, subtract about 1/16" and that is the maximum sewing thickness. The biggest thread it handles is #138 bonded nylon. Without knowing what clearance your machine has under the raised feet, I'll have to guess it will sew about 5/16" maximum. It uses the standard walking foot needle system: 135x16 or 135x17. Clean it up, keep it oiled, replace any worn out parts, put a servo motor on it and she'll be cherry for another half century. Just don't wear it out trying to run #207 thread through it. The 591 is a garment sewing machine that is capable of also sewing light weight drapes. It uses a smaller needle system than the 111 and 211, and clones. Those needles top off at about size 21. The machine is not set-up to sew with anything heavier than #69 thread. It is for garment making, tailoring and drapery hemming, not for leather. Never was, never will be. Been there, done that. Don't be fooled by the strong appearance of industrial sewing machines. The skin does not reveal what is inside or how much pressure they can stand while working. Garment machines are not designed for sewing with heavy thread, big needles or dense payloads. You can easily knock them out of sync by trying to sew leather belts with them. In reality, the sturdy iron casings and bronze bearings on industrial machines are made that way to absorb the high heat from continuous high speed sewing. Most modern high speed garment machines have an oil pan, oil pump and wicks that distribute oil to moving parts and bearings. How does 3000, to 5000 stitches per minute sound for sewing a belt? NOT! Only walking foot, or harness machines are actually built leather tough. These are slower speed machines, with very thick take-up parts, heavy tension springs and sturdy drive systems. Most walking foot upholstery machines have a maximum sewing speed of 800 to 1000 stitches per minute. Most leather sewing machines are geared way down to about 160 to 320 stitches per minute (exception: Union Lockstitch; 800). Plunging a #25 or 27 needle, threaded with #277 nylon thread, into 1/2" to 3/4" of hard belt leather generates an incredible amount of friction and heat. I've seen smoke coming from leather and thread literally melting in the needle's eye, at 600 spi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramrod Report post Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) o.k., got it. thanks to both of you guys. i really appreciate the info. wiz - the 591 i got could do 3400 SPM according to the seller (who used it in the factory!). it's been reduced to 1700 with the new motor - but still extremely fast. the 591 has gone through 2 layers of 4 oz plus a zipper. it does have an oil pan. maybe i'll sell the 591 and keep the 211. wiz - i'm confused. what is a walking foot needle system: 135x16 or 135x17? does this refer to needle size? if not, is there any info that tells me what size needle to use with a certain thread size? also - what does the "155" designate (as in 211g155) in the model number? Edited January 31, 2011 by ramrod Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CowboyBob Report post Posted February 1, 2011 I guess I might as well jump in here. maybe i'll sell the 591 and keep the 211.-That's a great idea! wiz - i'm confused. what is a walking foot needle system: 135x16 or 135x17? does this refer to needle size?135x16= round point needle,135x16=leather point if not, is there any info that tells me what size needle to use with a certain thread size? also - what does the "155" designate (as in 211g155) in the model number?It the model that has a walking foot,there's also a 211g150 that is a needlefeed & a 211g157 needlefeed w/reverse & there also a 211g166 w/rev & walking foot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted February 1, 2011 ... wiz - i'm confused. what is a walking foot needle system: 135x16 or 135x17? does this refer to needle size? if not, is there any info that tells me what size needle to use with a certain thread size? also - what does the "155" designate (as in 211g155) in the model number? The needle system refers to the designation, in this case, 135x16 and 135x17. The former is a leather point and the latter is round point. The needles in this system are almost 1 3/4" long and slightly over 1/16" in diameter, at the upper shank (that goes into the needlebar). They are sold in width sizes ranging from US #12 (metric 80) up to #25 (metric 200). This corresponds to a appropriate thread size range from #46 bonded nylon or "invisible" monofilament, up to #277 bonded nylon. The most common thread size used in sewing upholstery and leather garments is #69, also known as T70. It requires a #16 or #18 needle, depending on the thickness and density being sewn. Links to thread and needle charts have recently been posted in replies to similar questions. Search posts for "thread and needle chart" or "needle size chart." There is a Sticky topic at the top of this forum that explains how to choose the best size needle for any given thread size. Finally, to answer your last question, the 155 is sub-model designation, which happens to have a walking foot, triple feed system. The 155 is the last of the line for the 111 series and is the most sought after model. It stitches forward only. One must use the Poor Man's Reverse (turn the work around 180 degrees) to back tack. The 111 Singers must be manually oiled frequently. They have a safety clutch that disengages the bobbin drive if it gets jammed with thread. When that happens a button pops up on the bed. The bobbin mechanism is disengaged until you clear the tangled thread out. Then, you push down on the button and turn the hand wheel until the mechanism catches again and it locks back into time. Before this invention, a jammed bobbin case would throw the machine hopelessly out of time. The Singer 111w155 can sew leather up to 5/16". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted February 1, 2011 I'm sorry. I gave information about the Singer 111w155 when you were asking about the 211w155. That series is newer and sleeker shaped and has more model numbers following it. The 211w156 has a reverse lever, which is not present on the 211w155. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramrod Report post Posted February 1, 2011 o.k., once again - thank you to both of you guys. you've been so helpful. so, my 155 has no reverse. i liked that on the 591 when i messed around with it. you gave me a lot of information. i figured sewmun would chime in also. i'll read over that info about thread and needle sizes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
