chouinardragon Report post Posted May 13, 2011 Hello, Anyone notices that Hermes saddle stitches go like this ///// , but most stitches here or on any tutorial go like this \\\\\ Anyone knows why? Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtclod Report post Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) i have no ideal. Edited May 13, 2011 by dirtclod Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MADMAX22 Report post Posted May 13, 2011 you can change the angle that you punch with the awl. Also you can change the lay of the thread by which side you start with and which flip you toss the half knot if you use one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
terrymac Report post Posted May 13, 2011 Maybe they read the Al Stohlman book on hand sewing leather. The angle they are using is exactly what is recommended in the book, has a lot to do with maintaing integrity of leather. Terry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chouinardragon Report post Posted May 13, 2011 I think the angle is probably the same as we do because the angle of the Vergez Blanchard pricking irons they use are / / / / /. you can change the angle that you punch with the awl. Also you can change the lay of the thread by which side you start with and which flip you toss the half knot if you use one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pete Report post Posted May 13, 2011 That's the way it comes out if you sew away from yourself which is easier than towards yourself when it's in a clamp or horse. My guess. I've always sewn away from my body. pete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Report post Posted May 14, 2011 Because that is the twist of the needle in the sewing machine. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chouinardragon Report post Posted May 15, 2011 Really? I thought they make all their products by hands. Because that is the twist of the needle in the sewing machine. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chouinardragon Report post Posted May 15, 2011 We all start from the left, don't we? There is a video on youtube, they stitch the way as we do. You can find the video by searching 'hermes saddle stitch'. By the way, what do you mean by saying "which flip you toss the half knot"? Chris you can change the angle that you punch with the awl. Also you can change the lay of the thread by which side you start with and which flip you toss the half knot if you use one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Report post Posted May 15, 2011 I don't know about their bags, but the saddles haven't been hand sewn for at least twenty years. A lot of people consider a machine run by a human to be hand sewing, I guess instead of a computer controlled machine. Off the subject, one time we had a French purse in the shop, and the maker had forgotten his awl in between the lining and the bag. It ended up on an Open/ Closed sign. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MADMAX22 Report post Posted May 15, 2011 Well just about anything you do while hand stitching affects the end result in some fashion. Thats why you have to no matter what do it exactly the same every stitch in order to get a nice clean result. With the knot that some people make it depends on whether you toss the loop over the top or over the bottom of the thread your pulling out which can drive the thread up or down when you pull it tight. This along with depending on which direction the awl hole is made can affect the look of your stitch. Would have to experiment with it. We all start from the left, don't we? There is a video on youtube, they stitch the way as we do. You can find the video by searching 'hermes saddle stitch'. By the way, what do you mean by saying "which flip you toss the half knot"? Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gtwister09 Report post Posted May 15, 2011 Several have given hand sewing information. When using a sewing machine you can use an LL point to cut the leather to the left at a 45 degree angle in the sewing direction. See example below for the angle and direction of sewing travel. Likewise using an LR needle point cuts the leather to the right at a 45 degree angle in the sewing direction. See example below. Regards, Ben Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chouinardragon Report post Posted May 16, 2011 Thanks, Ben. I checked saddery forum in French, most of stitches they do are / / / / /. Several have given hand sewing information. When using a sewing machine you can use an LL point to cut the leather to the left at a 45 degree angle in the sewing direction. See example below for the angle and direction of sewing travel. Likewise using an LR needle point cuts the leather to the right at a 45 degree angle in the sewing direction. See example below. Regards, Ben Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fivewayswelshcobs Report post Posted May 16, 2011 Over here (UK) the correct way to stitch by hand in the saddlery trade is to use clamps and we stitch towards the body and this, when using the double hand method, give the same pattern as the Hermes stitch you are talking about with the stitch marker angled ///// . This marker can be used for single hand stitching but the marker \\\\ can not be used for double hand stitching only single hand stitching (it gives untidy stitching) unless when used for stitching things when the two edges are butted together and then one line of stitching is marked one way and the other marked the other so once stitched both lines of stitching look correct. The way I was taught in Walsall (heart of the saddlery trade) is the awl in the right hand one needle in each hand, the awl is used to make the hole through the stitch mark with one of the flatter edges of the diamond awl following the same angle as the top of leather strap the left needle through first and is pulled slightly downwards and the right needle put above the left, the thread loop on the left side is then put over the right needle and both pulled out and tightened as required, this gives the hermes pattern. The angle of the awl will determine the angle of the stitch, if the awl is put down whilst stitching the angle of the stitching will often alter as the awl in the hand will change position however careful the stitcher is. When talking saddles yes most are machined today but some of us have and do stitch them entirely by hand but as this is not commercially viable my horses are the only ones to benefit from my hand stitched saddles, I also hand stitch all the bridlework and leather harness I make. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldtimer Report post Posted May 16, 2011 I agree with Kevin. To me it looks like a machine stitch. Some claim things are handmade even if a machine is involved. It is a question of how you define it. / Knut Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chouinardragon Report post Posted May 17, 2011 Okay, I tried to stitch some yesterday using the way that MADMAX22 said. The thread did go like this / / / / ,BUT the thread is kind of overlap. Okay, now I get the thread angle I want but not the way Hermes does. I will stitch the way fivewayswelshcobs said and put some photos later. By the way, I am pretty sure Hermes makes these bags by hand, you can find some pictures by searching "Hermes Festival in Crafts". The artisan made a bag by hand in the festival. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chouinardragon Report post Posted May 19, 2011 Thank you. I think that's the way the Hermes artisans do their stitch. I found a picture which shows a artisan is stitching a bag handle (picture attached). I notice that they do pull over the thread loop over the right needle. Unfortunately, I did the same way last night and could not get the same result. I will attach my stitch tonight. I was wondering if it is something wrong with my awl blade size and thread size. Do awl size and thread size effect the result? Thank you. Chris Over here (UK) the correct way to stitch by hand in the saddlery trade is to use clamps and we stitch towards the body and this, when using the double hand method, give the same pattern as the Hermes stitch you are talking about with the stitch marker angled ///// . This marker can be used for single hand stitching but the marker \\\\ can not be used for double hand stitching only single hand stitching (it gives untidy stitching) unless when used for stitching things when the two edges are butted together and then one line of stitching is marked one way and the other marked the other so once stitched both lines of stitching look correct. The way I was taught in Walsall (heart of the saddlery trade) is the awl in the right hand one needle in each hand, the awl is used to make the hole through the stitch mark with one of the flatter edges of the diamond awl following the same angle as the top of leather strap the left needle through first and is pulled slightly downwards and the right needle put above the left, the thread loop on the left side is then put over the right needle and both pulled out and tightened as required, this gives the hermes pattern. The angle of the awl will determine the angle of the stitch, if the awl is put down whilst stitching the angle of the stitching will often alter as the awl in the hand will change position however careful the stitcher is. When talking saddles yes most are machined today but some of us have and do stitch them entirely by hand but as this is not commercially viable my horses are the only ones to benefit from my hand stitched saddles, I also hand stitch all the bridlework and leather harness I make. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chouinardragon Report post Posted May 19, 2011 This is the result I got. Pictures as attached. 1st one is the front side, 2nd one is the back side. I stitched with 7 SPI and 25/3 linen thread. I think the thread is kind of large for the stitching holes. Still can not get the Hermes pattern ... Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raleighchopper Report post Posted June 4, 2011 Hi, I like the Hermes look as well. This video may give some insight. RC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimsaddler Report post Posted June 4, 2011 Please excuse my butting in, but I couldn't help it. The poor fellow in the video has a bit to learn about stitching. First he doesn't throw his back loop to get the back of the stitch to slope the same as the front. This also speeds up the stitching as while you are throwing the loop the thread is pulling the needle through the Leather to make it easier to pick up. If this is done there is no sound reason to tap out the Stitches with a Hammer as they well be pulled into the Leather firmly and neatly. Good Hand Sewing is co-ordinated, Smooth and will out last Machine Stitching. Kindest Regards Jim Saddler. Hi, I like the Hermes look as well. This video may give some insight. RC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lippy Report post Posted June 4, 2011 Note to JIMSADDLER, Can't you find someone to hold the video camera while you show us the right way to hand stitch. You've always had the BEST ADVICE!!! Pictures and video are always worth a million words. Right or wrong, the guy in the video stitching the saddle part works for Hermes and they charge a whole lot of money for what he does. Cheers and many thanks! Lippy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Report post Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) Unless something has changed in just the last couple years and I haven't seen it, that video is bogus. They quit handsewing pull skirts a long time ago. Like twenty years ago. I will say, they are one of the last companies that build a saddle sort of like it's supposed to be done. Kevin PS, When I say it's bogus, I mean it is for demonstration only. They do still hand seam the seat and use tacks as opposed to staples. Edited June 5, 2011 by Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimsaddler Report post Posted June 5, 2011 Hi Lippy you're right. I need a Camera Man or Woman. I've got the Video Camera, the ability, the workshop, the Tools, the Materials. BUT need someone to take the Video. I'll keep looking, or wait till my Family get interested enough. Kindest Regards. Jim Saddler Note to JIMSADDLER, Can't you find someone to hold the video camera while you show us the right way to hand stitch. You've always had the BEST ADVICE!!! Pictures and video are always worth a million words. Right or wrong, the guy in the video stitching the saddle part works for Hermes and they charge a whole lot of money for what he does. Cheers and many thanks! Lippy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbob Report post Posted June 25, 2011 Hello, Anyone notices that Hermes saddle stitches go like this ///// , but most stitches here or on any tutorial go like this \\\\\ Anyone knows why? Chris I think Kevin is right.....he gets to eat da cake!! Schmetz needles has great website and displays These needles and how they stitch a certain pattern!! James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chouinardragon Report post Posted June 26, 2011 James, I don't think so. All of the Hermes products are hand-stitched, from leather accessories to Birkin bags. You can google it and see if I am right. Chris I think Kevin is right.....he gets to eat da cake!! Schmetz needles has great website and displays These needles and how they stitch a certain pattern!! James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
