Hermes Saddle Stitch

[Jimbob]

James,

I don't think so. All of the Hermes products are hand-stitched, from leather accessories to Birkin bags.

You can google it and see if I am right.

Chris

Of course was I refering to machine sewing items....so was Kevin I think.....stitching by hand is ur personal choice of addressing the awl to the material!!!!

James

[Kevin]

I got a newer Hermes in for a new seat and they have gone back to handsewing the pull skirt. I guess since they're not the big fish anymore in French saddles, they have to try harder.

Kevin

[BuffaloGirl]

Hello,

Anyone notices that Hermes saddle stitches go like this ///// , but most stitches here or on any tutorial go like this \\\\\

Anyone knows why?

Chris

Hello, I joined just so I could comment on this old post.

1) I received an email from Hermes that stated that "Please note that some parts of the handbags are machine stitch and some are hand stitch. " Feb 2012.

2) look at your picture. Note how you are right that most of the stitching is /////, but that in critical areas like where the handles attach to the bag the stitches are in the opposite direction \\\\.

I have been looking at fake and authentic Birkin handbags and this stitching in opposite direction is consistent. Where there is a the potential for rips (strap joints to bag, etc.) Hermes has the stitches in the opposite direction....I believe because this is when they are using the saddle stitch. Otherwise they are using a sewing machine.

I hope this helps. I have read that repairs are always made using saddle stitch as not to accidentally punch extra wholes, so to use existing ones.

[CustomDoug]

I was under the impression that hermes was using machines now-a-days to some extend, if not mostly. However, I would doubt they'd ever do it all by machine. However I'm sure they'd always have craftsmen that could perform the level of stitching that we see in pictures and these videos. If nothing else, for special orders and repairs, etc. But as for the hand stitch looking like it's machine done, wouldn't that be achieved by using a stitching wheel to go over all the stitching after all is done, to unify the appearance? Or are they supposed to be beyond such techniques?

Edited March 3, 2012 by CustomDoug

[UnionCraft]

I believe a pricking iron is a must for this stitching. The holes used by Hermes and others with sloping stitches are different. Instead of a diamond shape hole, the have slanted slits. If you want your thread to go //////////////, you need portmanteau (left) pricking irons that look like \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\. If you get a vintage suitcase and pop out all the old thread, you'll see a WWWWWWWWWWWW like impression on the leather. the slants going towards the left are thread marks and the slants going towards the right are the actual holes punched in. Somewhere on this forum, someone said he or she spoke to a Hermes artisan about the pricking iron and the artisan said she actually hammers the iron all the way through instead of just "pricking" the leather. In a Alfred Dunhill video, he pounds his pricking iron hard too, so they both pre make the holes. In both Hermes and Dunhill videos, you can see an awl being used, but it's just to guide the back needle through since you can't see the back hole without bending over to look. It's also how you pull the thread as well. I'm probably going to order a Dixon iron soon, so I'll pit it to the the test and try different methods.

[chouinardragon]

Yes, i saw a Hermes bag maker stitching a Kelly bag at Hermes festival des metiers, she did punch the iron all the way through. But, the Hermes saddle maker did NOT punch the iron all the way through, he did use the awl to stab into the leather while stitching. I love the way the saddle maker does.

[DoubleC]

Some of us who are visual-motor impaired and don't have a stitching horse yet (mines coming next month, I'm so excited) actually SS from right to left, and I can't hold two needles and an awl since I haven't had a clamp of any sort yet, so I go around mine twice, making sure the stitch on the second round goes in the same way through each hole. Now that I have a horse coming I hope to be able to actually do it the correct and much faster way with two needles and holding the awl at all times, but I have very clumsy hands so I may never learn to do it the fast way. I usually use it for a blind stitch because of that. Cheryl.

[CustomDoug]

Notice from the original picture that's on the first page of this thread... the stitching of the handle attachments are going in the opposite direction to Hermes traditional stitch. They look hand stitched to me but in the angled in the opposite direction that hermes does their straight-line saddle-stitch. Is that normal for them ?

Edited September 24, 2012 by CustomDoug

[seanafk]

FWIW I was taught to hit the iron until it just goes through. The holes kind of close up after you punch them and are temporarily re-opened with the awl.

We also use Blanchard pricking irons which are orientated //// ( when looking at the outward facing side of the piece).

The piece is put in a sewing clam and mostly sewn starting at the back (furthest end of the clam from you) to front.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

This may be of some use in shedding some light on this subject;

http://keysew.com/Webpages/DemoImages/Groz-Beckert_Needles_for_the_processing_of_leather.pdf

[johnv474]

"Please excuse my butting in, but I couldn't help it.

The poor fellow in the video has a bit to learn about stitching. First he..."

I am reviving this very old thread because it keeps appearing in my search results and may likewise appear for others. The comment above demonstrates an unfortunately common attitude in the leatherworking world, and that is that there is only one correct way of doing something. There are different ways, different traditions, and many of them will result in successful results with long-lasting stitches and good-looking products.

The other issue that people who find this topic might want to know is that the young man in this video works for Hermes... a company with a famously long heritage of fine craftsmanship, with numerous world-famous and winning saddles created over the centuries for royalty and the elite of the world. Their apprenticeship program for sewing consists of several years of stitching nothing larger than a watch band, before being entrusted with making bags, handles, or cases that will sell for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. They are among the most elite leather goods in the world. If anyone has a bit to learn about hand sewing, it is those of us whose works are not in the same category.

So before anyone lend to much weight to the above comment, or similarly-toned comments in other threads, consider that not all opinions expressed in these forums are equally well-informed.

[Alden]

Hi all,

I can see this thread is super old but I really liked the topic as its relevant to what I've been looking for and what I'm practicing at this minute.

On a personal note I have a friend who is a Saddler for Hermes and working currently. He told me that sewing machines form an integral part to the luxury industry, specifically Saddlery and bags and leather goods in general at Hermes. However, Saddle stitch is used on all parts of a leather good or saddle that function as load bearing. On parts that do not carry a load or strain and therefore are not integral to its function will often be machine stitched.

Machine stitching and finishing the stitch can be tied hand off or saddle stitched where finishing is required by hand thus combing the machine with hand finishing techniques by leaving thread to work with.

I meet him a two years ago as I was finishing up in Melbourne and about to relocate to Spain. I had a small dog accessories business using machines while over time self learnt traditional leather working techniques. 

Saddle stitching is quite easy but beautiful and regular stitching has been  a massive challenge for me!!! 

 

[johnv474]

On 4/26/2020 at 7:04 AM, Alden said:

Hi all,

I can see this thread is super old but I really liked the topic as its relevant to what I've been looking for and what I'm practicing at this minute.

On a personal note I have a friend who is a Saddler for Hermes and working currently. He told me that sewing machines form an integral part to the luxury industry, specifically Saddlery and bags and leather goods in general at Hermes. However, Saddle stitch is used on all parts of a leather good or saddle that function as load bearing. On parts that do not carry a load or strain and therefore are not integral to its function will often be machine stitched.

Machine stitching and finishing the stitch can be tied hand off or saddle stitched where finishing is required by hand thus combing the machine with hand finishing techniques by leaving thread to work with.

I meet him a two years ago as I was finishing up in Melbourne and about to relocate to Spain. I had a small dog accessories business using machines while over time self learnt traditional leather working techniques. 

Saddle stitching is quite easy but beautiful and regular stitching has been  a massive challenge for me!!! 

 

Thank you for sharing this.  I continue to sew by hand and would like to become extremely proficient at it.  Your post reassures me that this is a good path to pursue.

[Alden]

On 5/5/2020 at 12:39 PM, johnv474 said:

Thank you for sharing this.  I continue to sew by hand and would like to become extremely proficient at it.  Your post reassures me that this is a good path to pursue.

I just found this video on YouTube while looking for anything about Hermes saddle stitch that shows their artisans working. I'm trying to pick up as many tips as possible. 

Search for.......'How is a Hermès leather strap crafted - Part 2'

It clearly illustrates their use of machine and saddle stitch.

My Saddle stitch is still rubbish....

Edited May 15, 2020 by Alden

[Tugadude]

1 hour ago, Alden said:

I just found this video on YouTube while looking for anything about Hermes saddle stitch that shows their artisans working. I'm trying to pick up as many tips as possible. 

Search for.......'How is a Hermès leather strap crafted - Part 2'

It clearly illustrates their use of machine and saddle stitch.

My Saddle stitch is still rubbish....

I urge you to check out these threads.  They should help you sort out your struggles and get you on a better path.

 

And

I am convinced that a beginner, with zero experience could produce a decent-looking stitch in one day with the proper tools and process.  Nigel Armitage himself has said that he has had students that learned the saddle stitch well enough in one day to be able to turn out aesthetically-pleasing work.  Sure, there is still lots more to learn, and they should continue their education to include the proper use of an awl, etc.  but they can get the basics down fairly quickly.

There just isn't any reason to accept rubbish.  There is help to be found.

[Alden]

Brilliant, thanks mate

[Danne]

On 5/15/2020 at 2:28 PM, Tugadude said:

I urge you to check out these threads.  They should help you sort out your struggles and get you on a better path.

 

And

I am convinced that a beginner, with zero experience could produce a decent-looking stitch in one day with the proper tools and process.  Nigel Armitage himself has said that he has had students that learned the saddle stitch well enough in one day to be able to turn out aesthetically-pleasing work.  Sure, there is still lots more to learn, and they should continue their education to include the proper use of an awl, etc.  but they can get the basics down fairly quickly.

There just isn't any reason to accept rubbish.  There is help to be found.

Yes maybe one some thicker stiffer leather. And also it depends on what a decent-looking stitch is. All leather behave different, you have different thickness. One side might be softer and the other stiffer. My opinion is that saddle stitching is the hardest part of this craft. 

[Tugadude]

I'm not suggesting that anyone is an expert after one day's study.  What I am suggesting is that if you teach the proper technique and the student learns what the threads are supposed to be doing in the holes, they can fairly quickly get a decent-looking stitch.

I think for some, stitching s a mystery.  Sometimes they can get a decent result, sometimes not.  And the trouble is they have no idea why.

The mystery or mystique of the saddle stitch doesn't have to be a thing.  It is a process.  Yes, there is also an art to it and the more you practice and learn, the better you'll get, but good results can come from simply doing it right.

That's my point.  I helped someone that was struggling.  They had no idea why they weren't getting results.  I helped break the process down into the basics and when the lightbulb went off, you could see it.  They had read and watched, but never did get the salient points until we walked through it.  Their stitching went from a "D' to a "B" immediately.

Yes, there are always going to be more challenging projects.  I wouldn't teach a beginner how to sew calfskin gloves for example.

But let's try to remove some of the "smoke and mirrors" from stitching.  It is a skill that can be learned.  Maybe it takes years to master, but results don't have to come slowly with proper training.