Sewing Machine Decision?

[elboze]

Hi all!!! I'm new to this forum and have read much of the content pertaining to sewing machines. Could someone who makes thier daily living or has enough experience please tell us newbies when it come to dealing with these leather machines how to cut through the bs all the dealers want to tell you???

Example: I have spoken to several dealers who all have a different opinon about what their machine will sew and what others will not. I need a walking foot machine for sewing tack and have recently sold my Tippmann and Juki DDL in hopes of buying a good electric sewing machine. However one dealer will tell me, oh ya you will be able to sew chaps and switch your thread and needle out and sew harness, and another dealer says bs, you need 2 different machines, 1 to sew your tack and another to sew chaps.

Could someone please, for the love of god, tell us what is the black and white truth. Can lighter weight material be sewn on these heavy machines and still be quality stitching????

Also any opinons on what machines to stay away from????

Thanks

Lee

[KAYAK45]

Hi and welcome!

I cannot do Jack Nichalson, But...You want the truth..You can't Handle the truth!!!

Listen here and obey, cobra steve, toledo bob, wiz have no axe to grind.

They speak with straight tongue cimosoby! Buy what they say!!!

[elboze]

Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be ... Great movie

Yes I have read what Wiz has to offer seems to be pretty knowledgeable. Hopefully he will add his 2 cents.

Thanks Kayak

[Wizcrafts]

I sew on a Cobra Class 4 and an Adler 30-70, at work, in a pro leather shop. The Adler maxes out with #138 thread, sewn into maybe 3/8" thickness, taped together tightly. Otherwise, 5/16 inch loosely packed. It does a great job with #69 thread sewing leather vests, jackets, chaps, purses and even harder jobs, like belts and rifle slings. The thinner thread goes a lot farther in the relatively small "large" bobbin in this machine.

The Cobra is normally used with #138 to #277 thread and a #22 or #24 needle and can sew over 3/4 inch. However, with a simple change of the bobbin spool and smaller needle (and less top thread tension), I use it to sew cuffs and zippers on leather jackets and chaps, using #69 thread.

The action on the big stitchers is compound triple feed. As long as the feed dog is active, you have synchronized top and bottom feed, just like any walking foot machine. By tossing on the table top attachment you can sew chaps, jackets, belts, whatever, without it draping over the cylinder arm.

Ideally, if you have a lot of steady business in both garment and heavy leather sewing, you'll want separate machines, each set-up for the type of job it is meant to do. That means a light duty walking foot machine for light thread and thinner leather, denim and vinyl, and a big heavy duty machine for thick straps, holsters, saddlery, using thick thread.

I have learned that it is easier to dumb down a big stitcher, to do light work, than it is to smart up a lesser machine for heavier work than it is designed to do.

[Art]

Hi Lee,

You don't neeeeeeeeed two machines. The bigger machine like a 441 clone will sew 2-4oz with 69 thread as readily as 45oz using 346, just change needle, thread, and tension.

However, it is easier to switch back and forth with two machines, or three, or four.

Art

Hi all!!! I'm new to this forum and have read much of the content pertaining to sewing machines. Could someone who makes thier daily living or has enough experience please tell us newbies when it come to dealing with these leather machines how to cut through the bs all the dealers want to tell you???

Example: I have spoken to several dealers who all have a different opinon about what their machine will sew and what others will not. I need a walking foot machine for sewing tack and have recently sold my Tippmann and Juki DDL in hopes of buying a good electric sewing machine. However one dealer will tell me, oh ya you will be able to sew chaps and switch your thread and needle out and sew harness, and another dealer says bs, you need 2 different machines, 1 to sew your tack and another to sew chaps.

Could someone please, for the love of god, tell us what is the black and white truth. Can lighter weight material be sewn on these heavy machines and still be quality stitching????

Also any opinons on what machines to stay away from????

Thanks

Lee

[elboze]

Wiz & Art thanks for your replies!!!! That is what I needed to hear, someone who knows and not worried about making a sale. I have spoken with quite a few dealers and so far sure seems that Steve with Cobra will be getting my business. Very helpful and polite fellow. Only one to hand out his personal phone to boot!!!!

[Wizcrafts]

To expand on my prior reply; I at one time had over a dozen industrial sewing machines in my shop. Some were made as tailoring machines, others were designed for making upholstery or heavy denim garments. I had post machines for sewing hats and caps, patchers for patching and weird jobs sewn up the snout. But, most of my money making work was performed on four machines:

• Singer 29k something, with a small bobbin, for odd jobs
• Singer 153w102 walking foot cylinder arm machine
• Juki LU-563 for vests, skirts, jacket repairs, belts, Naugahyde, heavy cloth, etc.
• Union Lockstitch Machine for sewing up to 3/4 inch of leather, with #346 or larger thread.

Now, after getting rid of all of those machines and getting out of the business for 15 years, I am back into sewing and stamping leather. I have acquired and regularly use the following sewing machines:

• Singer 29k172 long arm big bobbin patcher, for patching and circular jobs requiring a cylinder arm.
• National 300N (obsolete) compound feed, large bobbin, walking foot machine, altered to sew up to 7/16 inch, with #138 thread.
• Union Lockstitch Machine, for thick jobs using #277 or #346 thread (or 4 or 6 cord waxed linen).

The only type of machine I intend to add is a cylinder arm walking foot, 441 clone machine. I can tell you it is going to be a Cowboy brand machine (it's on lay-away). This machine is built tough enough that I don't have to worry about out living it, as long as I keep it oiled. When I need tit to sew cuffs on leather jackets, or arm holes on vests, I will change the needle and thread, reduce the top tension and pressor foot pressure and put it to work. When a 3/4 inch job comes up I'll change back to a heavy needle and thread and increase the tensions again.

So, while you can use a 441 machine to do light work, it will require a lot of adjusting to get it right. Once you have the formula memorized, it's a piece of cake. If you can afford to purchase two machines, I would recommend one 441 clone and one walking foot flatbed machine. If only one, make it a 441 with a table top attachment and all needle sizes from 18 through 27. Get lots of bobbins and thread, two spools each size and color; one for the bobbin, one for the top.

[CowboyBob]

As Art says it can be done,but they don't make a leather point needles smaller than a #23,they do go down to a #18 needle you can use but it's a round point & might not look the best in certain leathers,also this needle is 2&3/4" long & when sewing with the #18 you have to be very careful because this needle can bend & break real easy(it's about the same size as the lead in a lead pencil)The smaller machines needles are 1/&3/4" & you can get a leather needle from #25-#14

I'm not trying to say it won't work I just like people to know that it won't work the best do to the needles.

Good Luck in your hunt.

Bob

[TwinOaks]

Adding to what the top guys are telling you:

You don't have to have multiple machines....but you'll WANT to. It's not about the machines' capabilities to penetrate leather, so much as it's about the machines' maximum thread sizes and the best match to the machines' designed functions. The big Cobra machines can certainly handle sewing small thin garment leather, but if it's set up for sewing harnesses, you'll have to change thread, needles, bobbin thread, tensions, and probably the speed to do garment work at anything resembling efficient. Likewise, you wouldn't expect singer 211 that's set up as a garment machine to perform well in the saddle skirt arena. That's why you'll want multiple machines- so you can set up the machine for an appropriate type of work and leave it there until needed.

Also, go ahead and plan on getting a patching machine.....if you're gonna run a leather shop, you'll want it.

[CowboyBob]

You don't have to have multiple machines....but you'll WANT to. It's not about the machines' capabilities to penetrate leather, so much as it's about the machines' maximum thread sizes and the best match to the machines' designed functions.

Very Well Said!

Heck you can pickup a small 31-15 Singer for a few $$ & do alot of chaps or anything else with #69 or 92

Bob