Vinegaroon Turns Gray?

[SUP]

On 1/14/2025 at 1:54 AM, Darren8306 said:

Now I want to get the light grey back...anyone know how to remove tanins from veg-tan?

You get tannins removers but if you want to remove the black color, it is iron tannate now, formed when the ferric acetate from the vinegaroon bonds to the tannins in the leather. I wonder if that bond can be broken.

To get that bluish grey color, you could try adding very little iron to vinegar, a diluted vinegaroon, so to speak.

Edited January 15 by SUP

[Darren8306]

On 1/15/2025 at 6:58 AM, SUP said:

You get tannins removers but if you want to remove the black color, it is iron tannate now, formed when the ferric acetate from the vinegaroon bonds to the tannins in the leather. I wonder if that bond can be broken.

To get that bluish grey color, you could try adding very little iron to vinegar, a diluted vinegaroon, so to speak.

Thanks, I might try that. I had a terribly naive accident trying the other way...

I thought I would add tannins to a belt, to get it to turn blacker. So I found a bowl which held the belt (and a couple keepers), put in a handful of tea bags, and poured in the boiling water. Then I let it steep awhile, and pulled it out.

Anyone like to purchase an irregular belt?

I'll try COLD tea, and some test samples. I guess it isn't good to run experiments while sipping gin with my sweethearts curling team...

[dikman]

Errr, maybe make up the tea solution first next time? Sorry, but I can't help laughing, you've got to admit it's funny! And yeah, perhaps go a bit easy on the gin.....

[Darren8306]

a well-stained belt turned out very nice, and I like the look a lot. 

 

Then, when I took off my pants, I could smell vinegar.

 

Not exactly the cologne one might choose for such an occasion...so I tried getting rid of the odour.

 

First attempt: soaking it in (cold!) coffee. it's drying on the counter now, smelling of vinegar. 

 

Any suggestions on what to try next? To get rid of the vinegar smell, I mean.

[fredk]

Try either diluted lemon juice or Bicarb of Soda

[SUP]

When dyeing with vinegaroon, I always rinse with running water immediately after I dip the leather in vinegaroon. That balances the pH and removes excess vinegar.

To get rid of the smell,  I just keep it in the open for a few days. It works for me when I use vinegar rinses on moldy leather.

[Beehive]

Maybe I can help. My first post on here. 

Tip #1, dye the leather a dark color before Vinegaroon.  You can use oil dye or the alcohol based. Go through the steps as you would. Let it dry. Once that happens. Follow it up with Vinegaroon. 

That's how you get the dark blacks. Brownish black, blueish black, red, yellow, green.

 

And until someone takes a PH reading. Forgo the baking soda. Because the Vinegaroon solution has converted the acid into another solution. And I've never seen ill effects from Vinegaroon.  

And as for the metallic smell. It goes away with a slight age. Laying the item in sunlight makes the process faster.

Edited January 24 by Beehive

[Darren8306]

On 1/23/2025 at 6:06 PM, fredk said:

Try either diluted lemon juice or Bicarb of Soda

I've tried baking soda stirred into cold water. Soaked it good, and then dried it. Being careful not to stretch it. 

On 1/23/2025 at 8:25 PM, SUP said:

When dyeing with vinegaroon, I always rinse with running water immediately after I dip the leather in vinegaroon. That balances the pH and removes excess vinegar.

To get rid of the smell,  I just keep it in the open for a few days. It works for me when I use vinegar rinses on moldy leather.

These were probably made with an under-ironed solution. I'm going to add steel until it stops dissolving, and let the batch air out indefinately.

14 hours ago, Beehive said:

Maybe I can help. My first post on here. 

Tip #1, dye the leather a dark color before Vinegaroon.  You can use oil dye or the alcohol based. Go through the steps as you would. Let it dry. Once that happens. Follow it up with Vinegaroon. 

That's how you get the dark blacks. Brownish black, blueish black, red, yellow, green.

 

And until someone takes a PH reading. Forgo the baking soda. Because the Vinegaroon solution has converted the acid into another solution. And I've never seen ill effects from Vinegaroon.  

And as for the metallic smell. It goes away with a slight age. Laying the item in sunlight makes the process faster.

I've been trying to avoid using dye. Just found out from a leather supplier in Alberta, that they aren't allowed to import the oil dyes anymore. Fumes were mentioned, but I have noticed it is tough to find good dyes here. 

Also, I just don't like a dye that can come off. For a wallet or belt, it should NEVER mark my clothes. It's one of the reasons I was so pleased with vinageroon - no DG paperwork, no import duty, no way for a bureaucrat to get another nibble...

I should try looking around the site here to see what other chemistry tricks have survived from leatherwork history. There may be other good colours available

 

Thanks everyone. I'm going to repeat the baking-soda bath on the other belt. Hopefully, it stays lighter gray, though when I oil it again (I oil after water each time) it may darken.

[SUP]

Actually, pH does matter. Approximations will do though.

Soaking in Baking soda might damage the leather. Just be careful you do not turn your leather too alkaline. Leather needs a pH of about 5, so a bit acidic. Household vinegar is 5%acetic acid and the pH of the vinegar is about 2.5. Rinsing the leather under running water, which will have a pH of about 7, should balance the pH out.  You don't need a pH-meter to determine that. Too alkaline a pH can damage the leather just as much as too acidic a pH.

 

 

 

[Beehive]

Now my curiosity is running wild. I'll dig out my PH test drops. The only PH of concern is the Vinegaroon solution. Measured after the solution is saturated with iron. Where the chemical conversion has stopped. Where no more iron can be dissolved in solution. 

Think of it like this. Vinegar is no longer an acid after contact with baking soda. Vinegar is no longer an acid when treated with iron. Water around here is quite alkaline. 7.4-.7.6. The city doesn't want pipe corrosion. And a neutral and stable 7.0 is a rare bird. 

My deal is there is a lot of monkey see, monkey do dealing with leather. And whoever came up with thinking a baking soda dunk is required. Never followed it up with an actual PH test of the solution before applied to leather.