Help! Newb Question About A Pfaff 545 And It's Suitability

[artificer13]

Hello all,

I have the opportunity to pick up a Pfaff 545 in good condition for under $500US and I'm wondering whether it would work for me.

I make sporrans and a few other soft-bags utilizing everything from kidskin up through about 9oz veg tan leather.

Would a Pfaff 545 fit my bill?

I frequently stitch through 9oz veg tan, or sometimes 5-6oz veg-tan faced with 4oz soft chrome tan, but need the ability to stitch light materials as well.

I'm completely booked into December at my current work rate. I'm at the point where hand-work for the hidden soft bag sections is consuming a LOT of time, and a machine would be very helpful.

I've been searching all the topics I can find here (thank you Wizcrafts) but didn't see machines described in their ability to switch from light to heavy (and I know some machines will just snarl up material that's too light).

I don't think I'd ever end up using more than a double layer of 5-6oz veg-tan, so a SUPER-duty machine is total overkill for me.

Any assistance or advice would be most appreciated.

[CowboyBob]

Yes,it will work.When you get it you might have to loosen the tensions both on the bobbincase & top thread & then it work great.

Bob

[Art]

The 545 is an excellent machine, but in your instance (where you do bags), why not a 335 cylinder arm? Still, it wouldn't hurt to have the flatbed if it is in excellent condition.

Art

Hello all,

I have the opportunity to pick up a Pfaff 545 in good condition for under $500US and I'm wondering whether it would work for me.

I make sporrans and a few other soft-bags utilizing everything from kidskin up through about 9oz veg tan leather.

Would a Pfaff 545 fit my bill?

I frequently stitch through 9oz veg tan, or sometimes 5-6oz veg-tan faced with 4oz soft chrome tan, but need the ability to stitch light materials as well.

I'm completely booked into December at my current work rate. I'm at the point where hand-work for the hidden soft bag sections is consuming a LOT of time, and a machine would be very helpful.

I've been searching all the topics I can find here (thank you Wizcrafts) but didn't see machines described in their ability to switch from light to heavy (and I know some machines will just snarl up material that's too light).

I don't think I'd ever end up using more than a double layer of 5-6oz veg-tan, so a SUPER-duty machine is total overkill for me.

Any assistance or advice would be most appreciated.

[artificer13]

Thanks all for the feedback so far.

The 545 is an excellent machine, but in your instance (where you do bags), why not a 335 cylinder arm? Still, it wouldn't hurt to have the flatbed if it is in excellent condition.

Art

If I had the green to drop for a cylinder arm, I'd gladly do it. LOL.

I checked it out today and it's not a 545, but a 145 H3 6/ 01 CLMPN. The machine does look pretty clean, but have definitely seen use.

I didn't have a chance to operate the thing, as they were having power problems, but the guy I talked to said he was having problems with the lower bobbin missing/fouling stitches after a short run.

If you chaps still think it's worth-while, I'll try and pop back round tomorrow (assuming the power is on again) and give it a test, although I know I'll need a servo motor and possibly a reducing pully.

The price is also less by quite a bit than I'd originally thought.

Thought?

[Art]

A little bit different machine, but not by much. The 145 has a riser shaft to drive the bobbin shaft and the 545 has a belt I think. Check the shaft and gears for wear. Check for excessive play everywhere as these were used a lot. The problems you mentioned could range from trivial to significant, and parts for an old Pfaff are not cheap. If the machine is sloppy, it has seen a lot of use and if the wear is overall (that means not just a sloppy needle bar) then a pass may be your best bet. However there are good ones out there, but a bad one that needs parts is a nightmare. Same story for a 545 or a 1245.

Art

Thanks all for the feedback so far.

If I had the green to drop for a cylinder arm, I'd gladly do it. LOL.

I checked it out today and it's not a 545, but a 145 H3 6/ 01 CLMPN. The machine does look pretty clean, but have definitely seen use.

I didn't have a chance to operate the thing, as they were having power problems, but the guy I talked to said he was having problems with the lower bobbin missing/fouling stitches after a short run.

If you chaps still think it's worth-while, I'll try and pop back round tomorrow (assuming the power is on again) and give it a test, although I know I'll need a servo motor and possibly a reducing pully.

The price is also less by quite a bit than I'd originally thought.

Thought?

[CowboyBob]

FWIW both the 145 & 545 have gear drives in them for the hook,the 1245 has the drive belt & just a set of gears below the bobbin.

Art is correct too! I just ordered a set of gears for under the bobbin f/a 145 & they are $120.00.the hook(a good brand) runs around $200.00,most of the feet,feed dog,needle plate are after market & less than $20.00 ea.

Bob

[Art]

Another thing I thought of, They use Pfaff Bobbins, which some folks replace with "L" bobbins. Often this works, but when it doesn't you can get tension type problems. I know sewing machine mechanics who swear up and down they are the same as an "L" bobbin, but they are not. I often have "L" bobbins that are all over the place with diameter and maybe the bigger ones will work, but smaller not so much. If the bobbin has a big hole in the side of the bobbin that usually lines up with a hole in the case cover then it is a Pfaff Bobbin. There are aftermarket ones that don't have the hole, but do work well. When you said sews well for 10 or 15 stitches then starts skipping etc., it reminds me of this happening.

Art

FWIW both the 145 & 545 have gear drives in them for the hook,the 1245 has the drive belt & just a set of gears below the bobbin.

Art is correct too! I just ordered a set of gears for under the bobbin f/a 145 & they are $120.00.the hook(a good brand) runs around $200.00,most of the feet,feed dog,needle plate are after market & less than $20.00 ea.

Bob

[artificer13]

Well, I'm pretty sure this guy is flaking on me. It's been a week and I've tried to call him several times and gotten no reply.

SO,

Does anyone have a good suggestion for a comparable machine to the Pfaff 145/545?

The only other one I've been able to find locally is a 1245, but they want $1600 for it, and at this point I'd really like to keep it under $1000.

[Techsew Ron]

Well, I'm pretty sure this guy is flaking on me. It's been a week and I've tried to call him several times and gotten no reply.

SO,

Does anyone have a good suggestion for a comparable machine to the Pfaff 145/545?

The only other one I've been able to find locally is a 1245, but they want $1600 for it, and at this point I'd really like to keep it under $1000.

Will be tough to find a cylinder walking foot machine (new or used) for under $1000, but you can find a flatbed walking foot machine from any of the dealers on this forum for around $1000-$1300. Go with a triple feed (compound feed) machine, large bobbin, servo motor if possible.

Ron

[Art]

A used 206 RBWhatever is a good machine. A new 618 (Cobra Class 18) is about $1595. Foot sets are much more available for the 618 and are really not expensive. If you buy used, you have to make sure the machine is in good condition as these types are common in upholstery and trim shops, not to mention drapery, canvas, and awning shops and get used hard. If you can find a Nakagima 280L or model with similar numbers, they were good old machines.

Usually, anything you buy will be set up to run fast, you don't need to go slow with canvas and upholstery grade leather. By the time you replace the motor and add a speed reducer, you are in the $1300 range, so go the extra $300 for a new machine with a warranty and a lifeline. The inspection and setup are part of the package, as is the servo motor and speed reducer.

Art

Well, I'm pretty sure this guy is flaking on me. It's been a week and I've tried to call him several times and gotten no reply.

SO,

Does anyone have a good suggestion for a comparable machine to the Pfaff 145/545?

The only other one I've been able to find locally is a 1245, but they want $1600 for it, and at this point I'd really like to keep it under $1000.

[Art]

As a side note, Ronnie at Techsew had a pretty pristine machine that would be right up your alley, although the price was more realistic, it's probably gone by now. I think it was a Juki but not sure. Contact all the dealers at the top of the page, they have machines in and out of their doors and could give you a call when the right one comes in.

Art

A used 206 RBWhatever is a good machine. A new 618 (Cobra Class 18) is about $1595. Foot sets are much more available for the 618 and are really not expensive. If you buy used, you have to make sure the machine is in good condition as these types are common in upholstery and trim shops, not to mention drapery, canvas, and awning shops and get used hard. If you can find a Nakagima 280L or model with similar numbers, they were good old machines.

Usually, anything you buy will be set up to run fast, you don't need to go slow with canvas and upholstery grade leather. By the time you replace the motor and add a speed reducer, you are in the $1300 range, so go the extra $300 for a new machine with a warranty and a lifeline. The inspection and setup are part of the package, as is the servo motor and speed reducer.

Art

[artificer13]

As a side note, Ronnie at Techsew had a pretty pristine machine that would be right up your alley, although the price was more realistic, it's probably gone by now. I think it was a Juki but not sure. Contact all the dealers at the top of the page, they have machines in and out of their doors and could give you a call when the right one comes in.

Art

Thanks again, I'll definitely have to make some calls.

I did see a singer 168 post-machine today that I'd REALLY have to stretch to buy, and at the price their asking I could buy a new lower-end TechSew cylinder or a CB2500. There was also saw a Consew 255, which was LOADS more affordable, but then I'm back to a flatbed.

[artificer13]

Bump up here.

Any thoughts on the Singer 168? It seems like a good balance that would allow me to sew lighter bags while still allowing me to assemble some doubled 6oz leather straps/masks/gear. Am I correct? Reading Wiz's thread about "Which sewing machine for leather" it seems that the cowboy or techsew might be a bit too heavy for the lighter gauge chrome tanned leathers of bags/purses.

[KAYAK45]

I can only suppose that the work of an Artificer, is in fact an artifact? Even when new?

[Wizcrafts]

I can only suppose that the work of an Artificer, is in fact an artifact? Even when new?

If so, it belongs in Warehouse 13!

Artificer;

If you only need to sew up to 3/16 of an inch, of soft temper leather, you can use either a roller foot or walking foot machine. Singer post machines were often equipped with a roller on top and a rolling feed dog on the bottom. There is a new Cowboy post machine that has gear driven top roller, in addition to the rotating feed dog. Machines like this provide very positive feed.

Still, if price is the driving factor, and you will be buying used, a Singer post machine is a good option for 10 to 12 ounces of soft leather. The post will allow the material to be moved in all directions after each piece is sewn (hanging over the post, inside, outside, front or back). I used to make caps and hats on old Singer roller foot post machines.

The one thing you must keep in mind is the thread size limitation of these old machines. They will not be happy sewing with anything bigger than #69 thread. None of the tensioners, not the presser foot spring are heavy enough to provide enough tension to sew with #138 thread, or hold down hard leather (with a big needle). If you limit the needle to a #18 leather point, with #69 bonded nylon thread, you should be able to sew your bags on it.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Wizcrafts

[MADMAX22]

Artificer where are you located at? I know in my general area there are several usually of like the 206rb's and such. Some in great shape some not so much. Various other flatbed machines of that style as well.

[artificer13]

Artificer where are you located at? I know in my general area there are several usually of like the 206rb's and such. Some in great shape some not so much. Various other flatbed machines of that style as well.

I'm in WI.

Alright gang, sorry to keep hashing this out, but what do you think about a

National 26-188 ?

Is this the same as the Rex 26 (which popped up on a search here)?

Again, I'm looking to (at best) stitch doubled up 6oz leather or a few layers of chrome tan.

It's a table rather than a cylinder or post, but the price is awfully good, even once I add a servo and possibly the reducing gear.

[Wizcrafts]

I'm in WI.

Alright gang, sorry to keep hashing this out, but what do you think about a

National 26-188 ?

Is this the same as the Rex 26 (which popped up on a search here)?

Again, I'm looking to (at best) stitch doubled up 6oz leather or a few layers of chrome tan.

It's a table rather than a cylinder or post, but the price is awfully good, even once I add a servo and possibly the reducing gear.

A friend of mine recently sold his Rex 26-188. It had teeth on the bottom of both presser feet and teeth on the feed dogs. The marks were very pronounced on both sides, on leather that remembers marking. If you are going to sew suede or roughout leathers, or leathers embossed with a lot of texture, the tooth marks won't be so obvious. Reducing the pressure on the feet would also help with the marking.

These machines are double feed machines. The outer presser foot is crank driven, in sync with the feed dog. Like love and marriage, ya can't have one without the other!

[artificer13]

Thanks again, Wizcrafts.

Well, I'm at the point of just buying new.

I've basically narrowed it down to two machines, the Cowboy CB2500 (which I know can mark the back of soft leathers) and the Tippmann Boss.

I don't do lined belts or things that require endless feet of stitching, so I'm not too concerned about hand powered operation.

Now I just need to make a decision and scrape together the cash.

[Wizcrafts]

Thanks again, Wizcrafts.

Well, I'm at the point of just buying new.

I've basically narrowed it down to two machines, the Cowboy CB2500 (which I know can mark the back of soft leathers) and the Tippmann Boss.

I don't do lined belts or things that require endless feet of stitching, so I'm not too concerned about hand powered operation.

Now I just need to make a decision and scrape together the cash.

How much thickness of leather do you intend to sew? What size thread will you be using the most? What are your primary sewing projects going to be?

Things to keep in mind are one of the two machines you mentioned is a production quality machine and the other is more of a prototyping machine.

[artificer13]

How much thickness of leather do you intend to sew? What size thread will you be using the most? What are your primary sewing projects going to be?

Things to keep in mind are one of the two machines you mentioned is a production quality machine and the other is more of a prototyping machine.

Most of what I make is one-offs (custom work).

I primarily make sporrans right now (everything from standard regimental day bags to recreating Victorian horsehair and fur bags), but am branching off into steampunk harnesses, belts, holsters and 'respirator masks'

My materials vary from kidskin on 6oz veg-tan, double 5oz chrome tan, up through (with some of these newer projects) 2 layers of 8-9oz harness or bridle leather.

I doubt I'd go above the 7/16" limit on the cowboy.

Right now I do everything by hand with waxed thread that probably runs 346. I like visual effect of the heavy thread. I don't think I'd ever use anything below 207, but I do like the Boss' capability to go lower.

[Wizcrafts]

The Cowboy CB2500 uses a needle system that begins with number 22/140, which is suitable for #138 bonded thread. The Boss uses system 794 needle which begin with a #19/120, suitable for #92 thread. Both use a similar shuttle and bobbin.

As for punching power, the Boss relies on your right arm to punch through the material, stitch after stitch. The Cowboy gives that task to a powerful motor.

The CB2500 has feed dog drive a static presser foot, but has an optional big roller foot if needed. The Boss has needle feed, with a jump foot.

The CB2500 has a 10.5" area between the body and needlebar. The Boss has a bit over 6 inches inside clearance.

The Boss has an aluminum casing and some gears are aluminum. The CB2500 uses steel gears and has an iron case. Magnets stick to it.

The Boss is portable, if there is a bench to bolt it to. The CB2500 is not portable.

Both machines can handle #346 thread. Needles are available in both systems.