tnawrot2 Report post Posted October 24, 2013 Bob from Toledo Sewing inquired about getting some 97-10 made, it would only be one style point and one size, the kicker was they wanted an order of 10,000. The following is from his post. They use a 97x3 Round Point or 97x4 Leather Point one of a kind needle,I bought 300 5 yrs ago but they long gone. They are not being made anymore. I talked to Schmetz & they said if I bought 10,000 they would be happy to make them in one size only,I don 't think I'd ever be able to sell that many in 200yrs. Now if I could find 9 guys that want 1000 ea?? Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Springerpanhead Report post Posted October 25, 2013 As small item manufacturing goes 10,000 is a small number, I would have expected a minimum order of 5 to 10 x that amount. I certainly don't know the market, but if one were to look outside the leather industry to the rigging and load handling gear manufacturers it shouldn't be too difficult to find commitments to buy some of them in a fairly sizable quantity. They would afterall, keep a machine in service that I'm guessing would cost 8 to 10,000 dollars to replace today. I may be just farting in my hat, but it might be worth looking into. What kind of prices was Schmetz asking? If in the .50 cent range you're only looking at 5,000 bucks, not really a large inventory investment by today's standards. O'course if you're trying to sell replacement machines you ain'ta gonna wanna do that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted October 25, 2013 This is not "my machine" but I googled for the needle size 97x3 and figured the US Military used them and in a list Groz-Beckert is mentioned as a manufacturer http://www.parttarget.com/Singer-Co-The_nsn-parts_97X3-28_233744.html I also have found a dealer in the CZ republic who stocks them: http://www.pjnovak.cz/spitze-rg-97x3-c-1_4_112_439_470.html?language=en Also found this dealer in the US who seems to have them: http://www.goldbergsupply.com/singer-needles/ Should not be too hard to get them... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted October 25, 2013 Does anybody know where I can find the wax pot for a Singer 97-10? Also whats the best thing to do when it comes to needles is it to modify the 794 LR needle. Can someone give me all the options someone would have for needles when the 1000 needles are absolete. Thanks! Ralph Ralph, I have two wax / lube pots for an Adler 4 / 5 they may fit for the Singer as well. Any interest? I can send some pictures if you want. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CowboyBob Report post Posted October 25, 2013 Only quoting Ron from Ferdco, using a 794s serv-1 and dropping the needle bar down just a bit (to line up hook with the center of the groove (forgot proper term) he claims you shpould still be able to sew an inch, just lose a little of the foot lift... I haven't tried it just yet... Try it & let me know what happens. As small item manufacturing goes 10,000 is a small number, I would have expected a minimum order of 5 to 10 x that amount. I certainly don't know the market, but if one were to look outside the leather industry to the rigging and load handling gear manufacturers it shouldn't be too difficult to find commitments to buy some of them in a fairly sizable quantity. They would afterall, keep a machine in service that I'm guessing would cost 8 to 10,000 dollars to replace today. I may be just farting in my hat, but it might be worth looking into. What kind of prices was Schmetz asking? If in the .50 cent range you're only looking at 5,000 bucks, not really a large inventory investment by today's standards. O'course if you're trying to sell replacement machines you ain'ta gonna wanna do that That was biggest problem they wanted $3.00 each!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregg From Keystone Sewing Report post Posted October 25, 2013 See attached, this is from the Singer catalog for the 97 Class. 97ClassSingerCatalog.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Springerpanhead Report post Posted October 26, 2013 Goldberg Supply in Flushing NY ( bad airport, worse drive ) still has NOS Singer 97x3 s in stock. Their web site still lists 97x4 s but they have been sold out for a long time. The 97x3 is a fabric point needle, the 97x4 is the leather point. In addition to Schmetz and Organ they carry a brand called Orange, don't know where they are located but I will research that soon as I finish this post. I am also going to research the possibility of a small specialty shop to make some of these, there are many shops that produce what are known as " findings " for the plating industry, different product but the same basic machinery to make it. THANKS TO EVERYONE for the information you have provided. Sorry I'm so obsessed with this but my 97-10 rates damn close to my 57 panhead chopper as machines that I'm fond of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Les No6 Report post Posted October 26, 2013 Goldberg Supply in Flushing NY ( bad airport, worse drive ) still has NOS Singer 97x3 s in stock. Their web site still lists 97x4 s but they have been sold out for a long time. The 97x3 is a fabric point needle, the 97x4 is the leather point. In addition to Schmetz and Organ they carry a brand called Orange, don't know where they are located but I will research that soon as I finish this post. I am also going to research the possibility of a small specialty shop to make some of these, there are many shops that produce what are known as " findings " for the plating industry, different product but the same basic machinery to make it. THANKS TO EVERYONE for the information you have provided. Sorry I'm so obsessed with this but my 97-10 rates damn close to my 57 panhead chopper as machines that I'm fond of. Quality 794s are readily available in many sizes and needle points are relatively cheap, and sew 7/8" at a push, they are the same needle just a little shorter they perfom exactly the same and there's nothing to adjusting the needle bar, so why the huge effort for an extra 1/8"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Springerpanhead Report post Posted October 26, 2013 Good question, just obsessed I guess. I also replaced the capacitor start capacitor run motor that came on the machine with an old repulsion start induction run motor, that really didn't make any sense either, but it sure looks more original to the machine. Anyway the info about Groz Beckert looks like it might pan out. I also went to the Chech site and sure nuff there was the 97-3 posted in clear English, when I tried to pull up info on the 97x4 the whole thing went Chech and that was that. AGAIN THANKS TO EVERBOBY for all the info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Springerpanhead Report post Posted October 26, 2013 Cowboy Bob Yeah, but for THREE BUCKS they come with a lifetime guarantee, unfortunately, it's for the life of the needle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Les No6 Report post Posted October 26, 2013 Good question, just obsessed I guess. I also replaced the capacitor start capacitor run motor that came on the machine with an old repulsion start induction run motor, that really didn't make any sense either, but it sure looks more original to the machine. Anyway the info about Groz Beckert looks like it might pan out. I also went to the Chech site and sure nuff there was the 97-3 posted in clear English, when I tried to pull up info on the 97x4 the whole thing went Chech and that was that. AGAIN THANKS TO EVERBOBY for all the info. I can respect that, you certainly picked one hell of a machine, Singer build quality is beyond reproach also Simanco needles where the best ever made, I'm a Pearson No6 man my self, I wish you all the luck in your search. Les Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DavidMillsSaddlery Report post Posted October 26, 2013 The story I heard about 97 series history was that it was made for the military in WWII to use in parachute lofts and for cargo plane load riggings. There were several configurations for various uses in the lofts where the stuff was made and/or repaired. Don't know about this but its a good story. WW I as well! Mine was made in 1910 according to who sold it to me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Singermania Report post Posted October 26, 2013 you can shorten the needle bar height to take a 794 but then you have a massive machine limited to 1/2"..... better to go to the bigger 7 class needle the 1000. have given up chasing old 97 stock needles and just cut down pearson needles these days, I have heaps of them in all sizes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gordond Report post Posted October 26, 2013 in regard to 97x3 ..have posted this a few times before... Groz Beckert ,Germany: circa 2008 97x3: sku :703762 97x3 size 250 [27] Available 3,800 needles sku: 702412 97x3 size 280 [28] Available 8,100 needles sku: 703772 97x3 size 300 [29] Available 2,100 needles Price: 109 Euro/100 [Germany]. no 97x4 left [note: Maico in Mexico has none..I know --I phoned in 2008 and asked them...fortunately my Spanish was good enough to get hold of an English speaker..very helpful man and kind enough to get in contact with Groz and they helped with the info] There were a few 97X3 held in the US that I was aware of...... but it has been awhile since I last checked . I would still like to split 100 unit packs with anyone who is interested. [27's and 28's] note ..I have seen other 97x needles for sale ;but found out they were 2-3/4" long. [this is incorrect as we know...97's are 3" inch long] As Steve said,Schmetz 1000H is being used [longer than the 97x?],however it is a scarfed roundpoint needle ,stock of size 29,30 were showing. 1000H's are also on the endangered or extinct species list Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Springerpanhead Report post Posted October 26, 2013 When I got my 97-10 it was already set up to use the class 7 needles, because I have a Singer 7-5 machine and had 7x4 needles on hand, that's what I went with. Too dumb to know the difference. Did however notice that there was interference with the needle bar when the foot was fully raised, " shudda beena clue " I haven't measured it, I will today but it seems like there is a hell of a lot more than 1/2 inch under the foot before the interference occurs. Reason I got into this whole 97 thing is because I want to leave the 7-5 set up for webbing, and use the 97 for leather. I rarely ever go over 1/2 inch so the current set up isn't really a problem, just annoys me that the machine can't be used to full capacity in case I need it. I have many friends with heavy horses, having kept Clydes and Shires myself for many years, and if they come dragging in some collars or traces I would like to be able to fix them. Had a Tippman for doing that years ago but gave it to a friend of mine who's retiring from his job and wants to do some leather work. I Like the old Singers cause it's nice to have something hanging around that's older than I am. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted October 26, 2013 I have to wonder if a clever person couldn't grind down the top of the presser feet, where the needle bar is hitting them when the feet are raised? Perhaps a little reshaping of the bottom of the needle bar would help it clear the (ground down) feet for more usable height. Thread guide might be in the way though. Relocate it if possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topsaddle Report post Posted November 21, 2013 Hello, I hope I'm not messing up this thread, but I've been reading this thread and wonder if some of you can help me get an old Singer 97 running again. I have tried several times and generally I'm good at figuring out things but its got me stumped. Im a retired saddlemaker but I still get occasional requests to do something for friends. When I sold the shop to my apprentice, I had a a Landis 16 that I sold with the shop. I have two Singer 97's. One more complete than the other. So i guess I have one parts machine. I bought them many years ago because I wanted a closed eye machine for doing heavy nylon but I never got it working. I have the manual and the parts books and an assortment of needles. Can someone first tell me what size needle to use with 207 or 277 and do you use one size smaller in the bobbin? The problem I have is with the tensioner on the back and timing the whole thing. I get it to sew for a few stiches and then it starts looping big time on the bottom. Its been a while (years) since I tried to get it going but I will probably go try it again tomorrow. thanks in advance. Gary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rcistarlite1 Report post Posted August 15, 2014 Hello everyone,I am new to the group and we have 3 singer industrial sewing machines we just got in from a client. The first is a singer 7-60 dual needle and uses the 7x1 needles. The other 2 machines are a 97-10s one is on stand that was made in 1942 in elizabeth NJ and the other 97-10 is just stationary on a sewing table. I am looking some original needles 97x3 and 97x4 to buy in 23-29 sizes if anyone has some they would like to sell. i have checked though our local sewing repair and he said that Groz bek only had the 30 which is to big. If anyone on this site has any to sell or refer an alternate needle we can use for these machines that would be great. I would hate to have these old machine just sit in the corner and not be used. Thanks for your help. best Romano Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Brosowski Report post Posted August 16, 2014 The 1000 class needle is made in China in two sizes but only in sharp point. I could take these needles and grind them to an approximate LR profile then harden and temper but price is going to be about $4 per needles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Landis Report post Posted September 5, 2017 Who has a Landis #3 out there for sale!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cowside Report post Posted July 7, 2018 I have some needles for a Singer 97-10 , for sale. ( 97 x 4 needles ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Singermania Report post Posted July 8, 2018 On 8/07/2018 at 5:15 AM, Cowside said: I have some needles for a Singer 97-10 , for sale. ( 97 x 4 needles ) HI Cowside, what size and type? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cowside Report post Posted July 13, 2018 On 7/8/2018 at 2:17 PM, Singermania said: HI Cowside, what size and type? They are size 28 and 97x4 type. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
