About Importing Endangered Species

[xtine]

Good Morning -

I am not a leatherworker at all. Just a novelist who put in a plot device she doesn't fully understand. I am hoping to pick all your brains on the below questions.

I appreciate the time you would take to help me with all or some of the below. I know everyone is busy, and I'm not really a proper member here, nor am I a leatherworker. So I hope you can forgive the intrusion....okay here goes!

*Is there an endangered species skin that can be easily confusedwith a really nice version of another, permitted skin?

*What is a CITES cert? (I'm sure I'm saying this wrong) Is this something that will let an endangeredspecies skin through customs? How can it be allowed at all? What do they haveto certify? This seems crazy, but I’m totally uneducated on the subject. (maybeyou have a good link to the info?)

*Are ALL skins checked at customs? I’d like it if a small amount got throughand then the big shipment is blocked.

*What skin would you recommend? I’d like it to be so luxuriousthat when you touch it you say, “oh my god this is the nicest leather I haveEVER touched.” And what country would it be from? I can easily have it comefrom one place, be dyed/tanned in another and shipped from a third – possiblywith a third treatment on it if necessary. No problem for the story.

Thanks in advance for your help.

You can check out my website at http://fashionismurder.com (the "murder" part refers to the murder mystery aspect of the books)

And you can look at the first book in the series here....http://www.amazon.com/Dead-New-Black-Fashion-Mysteries/dp/1466338121/

Have a great new year!

[catskin]

You may have as the saying goes, painted yourself into a corner, or in your case written.

The reason I say that is because almost any skin can be made to VERY closely resemble almost any other skin by the way it is tanned and treated afterwards. For example common cowhide could be made be ALMOST indistinguishable from any exotic leather. So much so that it would almost never be noticed by customs and would come through easily. It is a fact that almost all leathers sold in fashion as EXOTIC are in fact just made to look that way.

Sorry if this not what you want to learn but it is just fact.

I guess you will just have to use your imagination and create some fictional leather to get caught by customs or kill your victim.

[Sovran81]

There was a recent case I saw on a nature channel regarding a man in Alaska that was attacked by what appeared to be a brown bear. He shot the bear and following fish and game regulations informed the dept. The bear was confiscated pending species determination and record keeping. DNA testing proved it to not be a brown bear but a cross species of a protected animal. Mind you the bear was shot in self defense, but he has been informed that he faces heavy fines and possible imprisonment for killing a protected species that could only be determined by DNA testing. This is all before hide treatment. I can imagine the difficulties after tanning, dying and embossing as Catskin explained.

Good luck with the book. It sounds like you have artistic license here.

[HellfireJack]

*Is there an endangered species skin that can be easily confused with a really nice version of another, permitted skin?

As far as leather goes (I'm going to assume you mean a hide with the hair removed) I would also assume that custom agents the world over rely on the paperwork rather than visual identification. A hide with hair on it (fur) might be different but I would also assume that custom agents still rely on documentation rather than visual inspection of the actual hides for species. As pointed out one can be made to look like another as well but, that aside, most violators of CITES will not be using customs to move their black market products into CITES member states.

*What is a CITES cert? (I'm sure I'm saying this wrong) Is this something that will let an endangered species skin through customs? How can it be allowed at all? What do they have to certify? This seems crazy, but I'm totally uneducated on the subject. (maybe you have a good link to the info?)

First read this: http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/how.php

It's the mechanics of how CITES works.

Here are the appendixes: http://www.cites.org...011/E-Dec22.pdf

You also should check all of the reservation that are made to CITES by it's member states.

http://www.cites.org...app/reserve.php

These are animals that some countries do not believe should be controlled by CITES. Any reservation made exempts that country from issues when dealing with that animal. It is a free pass. Also remember that CITES is not a global legal device. There are still 20+ countries that are not members. These countries can freely trade in anything their country allows.

Then read this: http://library.fws.g...rmits-certs.pdf

It lists the different types of certificates and what they allow to be imported/exported (As far as the US Fish and Wildlife agency is concerned)

Yes, a CITES cert allows products from certain endangered animals to be traded. There are a few reason that some trade is still allowed. That's the purpose of certifications.

Pre-CITES certs would be the most prevalent I assume since people still deal in ivory products and skins that were taken before CITES existed.

*Are ALL skins checked at customs? I'd like it if a small amount got through and then the big shipment is blocked.

Yes, All shipments that pass fully through customs would be checked. There are still probably a few ways to get illegal contraband through customs. Whatever you choose.

*What skin would you recommend? I'd like it to be so luxurious that when you touch it you say, "oh my god this is the nicest leather I have EVER touched." And what country would it be from? I can easily have it come from one place, be dyed/tanned in another and shipped from a third – possibly with a third treatment on it if necessary. No problem for the story.

Your best bet would be to choose something on Appendix I of CITES. Then you have 175 countries to play around with.

Skins and furs would be most likely be tanned in their country of origin. The lure involved in trading in illegal animal products is in their rarity more so than how they feel or even look.

[Art]

Hi Joe,

If you are talking about Jim Martel, he was hunting on a polar bear tag in Canada in 2006. I haven't heard of another hybrid harvest. Taking a hybrid under any condition (you had a tag for a bear in the mix, or the bear had a non-specific tag for you) would not result in a violation. Self defense, nomatter what the species is not a violation of US law or State laws. Jim Martel was returned the cape, head, and paws after it was determined it was a hybrid of Grizzly (father) and Polar (mother for which he had a legal tag).

As for Christine's question, Italian calf is probably the most luxurious leather, seldom subject to misidentification, and not subject to CITES. For something more subject to your type scenario, I would suggest the Lizard species, used in smaller leather items like wallets and handbags where it is hard to tell some of them apart unless you have worked with them a while. I can't tell any of the alligator/crocodile/caimen species apart when they are just skins, much less finished products.

Good luck in your quest, I don't think there will be many readers aware if you take a little license.

Art

There was a recent case I saw on a nature channel regarding a man in Alaska that was attacked by what appeared to be a brown bear. He shot the bear and following fish and game regulations informed the dept. The bear was confiscated pending species determination and record keeping. DNA testing proved it to not be a brown bear but a cross species of a protected animal. Mind you the bear was shot in self defense, but he has been informed that he faces heavy fines and possible imprisonment for killing a protected species that could only be determined by DNA testing. This is all before hide treatment. I can imagine the difficulties after tanning, dying and embossing as Catskin explained.

Good luck with the book. It sounds like you have artistic license here.

[busted]

Good Morning -

I am not a leatherworker at all. Just a novelist who put in a plot device she doesn't fully understand. I am hoping to pick all your brains on the below questions.

I appreciate the time you would take to help me with all or some of the below. I know everyone is busy, and I'm not really a proper member here, nor am I a leatherworker. So I hope you can forgive the intrusion....okay here goes!

*Is there an endangered species skin that can be easily confusedwith a really nice version of another, permitted skin?

*What is a CITES cert? (I'm sure I'm saying this wrong) Is this something that will let an endangeredspecies skin through customs? How can it be allowed at all? What do they haveto certify? This seems crazy, but I'm totally uneducated on the subject. (maybeyou have a good link to the info?)

*Are ALL skins checked at customs? I'd like it if a small amount got throughand then the big shipment is blocked.

*What skin would you recommend? I'd like it to be so luxuriousthat when you touch it you say, "oh my god this is the nicest leather I haveEVER touched." And what country would it be from? I can easily have it comefrom one place, be dyed/tanned in another and shipped from a third – possiblywith a third treatment on it if necessary. No problem for the story.

Thanks in advance for your help.

You can check out my website at http://fashionismurder.com (the "murder" part refers to the murder mystery aspect of the books)

And you can look at the first book in the series here....http://www.amazon.com/Dead-New-Black-Fashion-Mysteries/dp/1466338121/

Have a great new year!

Are you a member of that pitiful group calling themselves peta. You should go some where else and do research.

[xtine]

Four out of five answers were really helpful. Thanks so much.

The fact that you really can't tell will be great. I can build a scene around that. And since the stoppage at the border is a setup, it's perfect.

Can I ask a couple more?

1) When looking at a skin, what would the back of it tell you?

2) Is there a glossary of terms I can refer to that might tell about the edges, the hair in the back, the creases?

3) What does the smell tell you about a skin?

4) With reptile skin, can you still not tell even if the scales are on it?

My point is, that if I have a superexpertninja come in, I want to know how he would inspect it and what words he'd use.

I am going to get to all those links in a couple of days (2 jobs, 2 kids etc...) and will probably bother you some more after that.

Thanks

X

Edited January 2, 2012 by xtine

[Art]

Hi Christine,

This might help you. This picture is of the corner of an African Elephant skin, a definite CITES piece from Zimbabwe 2006. This would make a beautiful handbag or wallet. There is also a cow/calf embossed skin that kind of looks like this. If I were to make you a bag from this skin, I would give you a letter on my letterhead with the info on the tag which gives the origin, import/export document number, and the year. If travelling outside the country and re-entering, you would want to have this with you. If I made you one out of the embossed calf, you wouldn't need anything.

The back of the skin doesn't tell me much, it is what it is.

I have never seen a glossary, there probably is one.

The smell might tell you how the skin was tanned.

The appearance or mammal, reptile, and fish tells the genus and sometimes species. That is what the expert looks at, and the physical properties of the skin. The difference in feel between elephant and cow embossed to look like elephant are dramatic even if they might look similar.

Art

Four out of five answers were really helpful. Thanks so much.

The fact that you really can't tell will be great. I can build a scene around that. And since the stoppage at the border is a setup, it's perfect.

Can I ask a couple more?

1) When looking at a skin, what would the back of it tell you?

2) Is there a glossary of terms I can refer to that might tell about the edges, the hair in the back, the creases?

3) What does the smell tell you about a skin?

4) With reptile skin, can you still not tell even if the scales are on it?

My point is, that if I have a superexpertninja come in, I want to know how he would inspect it and what words he'd use.

I am going to get to all those links in a couple of days (2 jobs, 2 kids etc...) and will probably bother you some more after that.

Thanks

X

[Guapo]

You should contact the US Fish and Wildlife Service. You can google them. They are the agency who enforces CITES.

[xtine]

Art - that picture is beautiful. Thanks so much. I can get a lot from that.

How does the elephant feel? I know tanning has a lot to do with it, but you said it was different than calf. Softer? Slicker? Stiffer?

Thanks!