Cylinder Arm Machines

[mmike956]

A few weeks ago I bought a Singer 29k. Now I'll be tasked to bring the heavy beast home and get it up the stairs. I had to leave it at the shop until I could make arrangements to levitate it to my second floor. I can't wait to get it home. Obviously it's treadle powered and has a split level table. I'm sure I'll be asking some questions about it here.

[CowboyBob]

There's 4-screws that fasten the head to the stand,take them out & it's a lot easier to go up steps with.Also less prone to breakage in transport.

[BigJohno]

I just acquired "Kayser" Left handed cylinder arm machine. It looks like a Singer 18-2 roller foot copy. Does anyone have some information on these machines?. Any help is appreciated.

[Constabulary]

Kayser is an old German brand and AFAIK some of the Kayser machines are clones of Singer machines, maybe some even came from the Singer factory in Wittenberge, Prusia and have been relabeled. So I would guess Singer 18 is the exact same machine but I´m not 100% sure. We had too many different makers in Germany. Some pictures of your machine would be nice.

[mmike956]

I took the 29 off the treadle and managed to get it upstairs to the sewing room. It was missing a couple of hard to find screws but College Sewing in England had what I needed. The bobbin winder was also missing and I managed to find one on ebay in Australia. Sadly it is a Chinese aluminum clone and the wheel is off center a bit but in a pinch it'll have to do.

[mmike956]

Here is the ongoing progress on the home made tables.

[mmike956]

Here are a few more pictures.

[dikman]

Those frames certainly look stable enough! One thing about that type of cylinder arm machine - it makes it easier to mount when you don't have to make a rebated cutout in the table.

[mmike956]

That is true however the V drive belt is a long skinny one! 3/8"X53". Not an easy find at the auto parts counter but is available. I've seen belts that piece together in segments but this was the easiest fix for me. By the way, The belts aren't here yet but on the way. The tables are made from 14gX1"X2" rectangle tube and some 1/2" standard pipe for pedal pivot shaft. The pedals require a little reaming to fit the pipe but it eliminates the need for the perforated channel and brackets. 3/4" standard plywood and a 3/8" birch smooth plywood laminate make the tops. I do have 2 factory tables one being a chopping block style in need of a little love and a green colored counter top style that was a free gift from an alteration shop here. I can't wait to see how the servo motor works with the cylinder arm machines. It just dawned on me that one of the tables sports a grey linoleum store bought top. I'll keep you posted.

Edited January 3, 2016 by mmike956

[dikman]

I just remembered that when I was buying a belt at my industrial sewing machine place they mentioned a belt material that is circular in cross-section and you buy whatever length you want and then use a special joiner to make it one piece. It's some sort of synthetic stuff. I must ask again (and write it down this time!).

[mmike956]

Last night I actually used the long leather belt off the 29K and shortened it to fit the 154W101 for a trial run. The machine isn't even bolted down yet but a successful seam was sewn. I thoroughly enjoyed seeing that double row of stitches forming. Once the V belt is here I can place the machine in a more precise location on the table top. The 29K doesn't need it's belt anyway, I use the hand wheel to operate it.

[mmike956]

I noticed my 153W102 had a 135X17 needle installed when I got it. It sewed fine and I decided to put a new needle in it and decided to use what the manual called for, a 135X7. Now its skipping every stitch except for the first one. I adjusted the needle bar to no avail. Changed thread sizes too. I did everything I knew to do and then just walked away from it. Any ideas?

[Uwe]

The 135x17 needle system dimension for beedle butt to top of eye is a full 5mm longer (38.9mm) than the 135x7 (33.9mm), according to this Needle system chart

A previous owner may have changed adjustments to make it work with the longer needle.

If you're switching back to the shorter original, you will likely have to go through the full hook timing adjustment procedure to have a chance of it working properly.

I'm curious how you could tell the needle in the machine was a 135x17? None of my needles from three different manufactures (Organ, Schmetz. Grotz-Beckert) have needle SYSTEM markings on the needle itself, just size markings.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Uwe

[gottaknow]

Actually, to go between the two needle classes, you simply have to adjust the needle bar height. Bring your hook to needle timing using the old needle and leave it there. Replace the old needle with the other class and simply loosen and change your needle bar height to bring it back to timing. No need to mess with the hook timing. That is assuming the hook timing was good with the old needle. I switch needle classes often on my old 211's and 153's all the time, as well as bartacks.

Regards, Eric

Edited January 10, 2016 by gottaknow

[mmike956]

I just happen to have a box of 135X17s to compare the old needle with, that's how I identified it or thought I did. I did move the needle bar to compensate for the length difference and I set the timing according to the manual. Maybe I'll go back upstairs in a little while and try it again. I had to leave it alone yesterday after a couple hours of messing with it. I must be overlooking something. It was working fine before I fixed it now I can't even get it to work with the old needle. It acts like its too close to the hook. This particular machine isn't one that Granddaddy left me. I bought it from USAdealer in Los Angeles. It was about $200 plus shipping and when it arrived I found the stitch length position pin had been brazed into the balance wheel. I couldn't see that detail from the picture on the site. The end of the arm shaft with the adjustment flights was broken off. I put another balance wheel on it and extended the position pin and now use the set screw to adjust the stitch length. It sewed so well I didn't mind the broken shaft so much. It still has the old fabric timing belt installed and when that breaks I can either replace the shaft then or just leave it and replace the belt alone. I'm not sure if this model is worthy of sinking much money into. I do appreciate all your advice. I'll keep trying.

[gottaknow]

Mike, if you moved your hook timing when you changed needles, then that's the problem. It's real easy to think you need to retard the hook timing to make it line up with the longer needle, when in reality you just need to raise the needle bar. If you put in the longer needle without moving the hook timing, your needle bar rise is still the same. To retime the hook, set the needle bar rise at 9/32" and bring the tip of the hook about 1/16" above the needle eye. Make sure the hook is close to the needle but not touching. The needle guard on the hook should be gently bent to prevent the needle from deflecting into the needle. Have fun!

Regards, Eric

[Uwe]

Forgive me, Master Eric, but this old padawan is wondering about that 9/32" needle rise figure for hook timing. It seems much higher (3x) than other machines of very similar head design. Is this due to the hook design or larger needle bar stroke?

[gottaknow]

Lol. It's one of those 32nds. 3 to be exact.

9/32 is the wrench size needed to adjust the lower looper on a Union Special 39500 overlock machine. I have too much stuff in my brain.

Regards, Eric

Edited January 11, 2016 by gottaknow

[Darren Brosowski]

LOL Eric

Apart from the /32's issue you just gave away every sewing mechanics secrets.

Mike, if you moved your hook timing when you changed needles, then that's the problem. It's real easy to think you need to retard the hook timing to make it line up with the longer needle, when in reality you just need to raise the needle bar. If you put in the longer needle without moving the hook timing, your needle bar rise is still the same. To retime the hook, set the needle bar rise at 9/32" and bring the tip of the hook about 1/16" above the needle eye. Make sure the hook is close to the needle but not touching. The needle guard on the hook should be gently bent to prevent the needle from deflecting into the needle. Have fun!

Regards, Eric

[mmike956]

Hook timing was definitely off a bit. I have it apart right now and haven't had time to mess with it for the last couple days. This machine is OLD and it had been in storage for no telling how long. I had a time moving the hook gear. The old Singer wrenches Granddaddy left me came in handy while moving the hook gear mount. I removed the hook to get rid of some thread trapped beneath it and I guess one must take care not to have the hook 180 degrees off upon reassembly. What a mess!

[mmike956]

Aha! After doing an autopsy on this machine and putting it back together in correct timing I found the thread not being pulled into the tensioner in the bobbin case. This may well be the smoking gun. Maybe the needle isn't going deep enough to set it into the tensioner?

[gottaknow]

When you put your bobbin in, it's up to you to make sure it's in the tension. Insert the bobbin so that it spins ccw when you pull the thread, guide it under the tab where the latch opener is, thread the needle and loosely hold the needle thread as you rotate the hand wheel towards you. The bobbin thread should pull up. Put your finger on top of the bobbin and pull. Your thread will slide right under the tension spring every time.

Regards, Eric

[mmike956]

Eric, I tried that and still had the same dilemma but after a few more rotations I found a tell tale piece of evidence that explained it all. The machine actually picked up a few stitches with loose loops underneath....Guess what.....thread tension issues unnoticed by this newbie. A lot of frustration and even cursing and swearing issued toward the machine that only needed a friend that knew what he was doing to help it along a bit and here we are at a solution to the problem. I'll be able to sleep tonight. In the days before the internet a problem like this would be solved with a trip to the wrecking yard. Many thanks to all of you who guided me through this mechanical analysis. Mike

[gottaknow]

That's cool Mike. I and several others here try to be as helpful as we can. I came here because of the machine aspect, but now I can actually call myself a leather worker.

Regards, Eric

[mmike956]

Here is a picture of the 29K58. I picked it up a couple months ago. It needs a cam roller replaced that controls the stitch length. I took it apart and found a flat spot on it. Makes the walking foot a bit loose. I paid too much for it but I found it local in Atlanta so I drove 55 miles and paid premium versus driving 1000 miles for a cheaper one. It was missing a couple of hard to find screws but I managed to obtain them from College in England. The machine is slow but handy!

Edited February 7, 2016 by mmike956