Swivel Knife Blades For The Whole Project?

[kseidel]

I personally disagree. While I'm obviously not a floral carver, or up to your skill level Keith, I believe the angle blade gets a bad rap most of the time. Part of the problem is companies like Tandy that make all of their angle blades with the hideously acute angles (50-60 degrees) with a hollow grind and call them a standard angle blade when really they should be called detail blades. In my opinion, a good 'working' angle blade shouldn't have an angle of more than 25 degrees or less. Difference is, with a low-angled angle blade (sounds odd but it's the best thing I can think of to call it) when the handle is in the upright position, it's ready to go in a more natural hand position, presenting the same amount of blade into the leather as a straight blade angled back for normal cutting operations. For tight curves, you tilt it back like normal but the amount of tilt required is less. For long straights & flowing curves, the blade is angled forward slightly to present more blade length to the leather. For finger and finishing cuts, a low angle angled blade with a shorter bevel grind works very well as the shorter bevel gives a width similar to a straight blade presented at an angle and can be drifted in & out of cuts just as easily.

I had to figure this all out due to a wrist problem I have in my cutting hand. Due to a hockey injury years ago, having my wrist in certain positions for too long will cause the joint to lock up. The standard 'angled back' cutting position of a straight blade was just such a position and i would fatigue quickly when working on large carvings. I worked with Paul Z at Leatherwranglers to come up with a blade angle that solves the problem and I can use for all my cuts.

Not saying either one is right or wrong/better or worse, just my opinion on swivel blades in general. A couple of examples of pieces I have done using only a low angle 3/8" angle blade for those interested are attached.

Cheers,

Chris

No argument from me Chris. I once had a man work for me who also used a "low angle" blade to great success. I certainly agree on the standard angle blades that they are more "detail" blades. Using your blade as you do produces the same effect in the same manner, with less movement of the wrist required. Only fault, if there is one, is that you can only use one corner of the blade for cutting. With the straight blade, when one corner starts to drag, I can simply turn around and use the other, resulting in less stropping.

I have found your technique especially useful for carvers who like shorter handles, and hold the yoke deeper on the finger, closer to the palm of their hand. There is not as much movement available holding the knife this way, and therefor harder to tilt the blade back far enough on its corner to get enough relief for smaller turns.

I appreciate your input with that information. Not many use a low angle blade, and not many available for purchase. Most would not think of grinding a blade as you have. Your work certainly shows your mastery of your knife.

Keith

[Spinner]

No argument from me Chris. I once had a man work for me who also used a "low angle" blade to great success. I certainly agree on the standard angle blades that they are more "detail" blades. Using your blade as you do produces the same effect in the same manner, with less movement of the wrist required. Only fault, if there is one, is that you can only use one corner of the blade for cutting. With the straight blade, when one corner starts to drag, I can simply turn around and use the other, resulting in less stropping.

I have found your technique especially useful for carvers who like shorter handles, and hold the yoke deeper on the finger, closer to the palm of their hand. There is not as much movement available holding the knife this way, and therefor harder to tilt the blade back far enough on its corner to get enough relief for smaller turns.

I appreciate your input with that information. Not many use a low angle blade, and not many available for purchase. Most would not think of grinding a blade as you have. Your work certainly shows your mastery of your knife.

Keith

Thanks for the compliment Keith, I appreciate it. The dual corners is definitely the major drawback so I do strop more often than a straight blade user would but it's a fair trade off for more comfort. I've been a semi-professional woodturner for 10+ years and blade/bevel geometry is a huge consideration there which is what made me rethink the swivel knife blades I found available. They aren't readily available from most makers but folks like Paul (and I'm sure others) are willing to do custom grinds if the buyer knows exactly what to ask for.

Interestingly enough, I don't think I have large hands but I do hold my knife the traditional way with the yolk up around the end of my finger (ahead of the first knuckle area) and use a standard length barrel with a large (rounded) yolk...best of both worlds maybe? Or it could be I'm just a little odd. haha

Cheers,

Chris

P.S. - thanks for the critique/comments on stem design above, I'm currently studying Sheridan pattern design and that was an excellent tip.

[ouchmyfinger]

No argument from me Chris. I once had a man work for me who also used a "low angle" blade to great success. I certainly agree on the standard angle blades that they are more "detail" blades. Using your blade as you do produces the same effect in the same manner, with less movement of the wrist required. Only fault, if there is one, is that you can only use one corner of the blade for cutting. With the straight blade, when one corner starts to drag, I can simply turn around and use the other, resulting in less stropping.

I have found your technique especially useful for carvers who like shorter handles, and hold the yoke deeper on the finger, closer to the palm of their hand. There is not as much movement available holding the knife this way, and therefor harder to tilt the blade back far enough on its corner to get enough relief for smaller turns.

I appreciate your input with that information. Not many use a low angle blade, and not many available for purchase. Most would not think of grinding a blade as you have. Your work certainly shows your mastery of your knife.

Keith

any pics that i can get to learn from would be much appreciated, i want to start on a binder for myself to keep all my pictures and patterns in.

also i have a like new angled ceramic blade if anyone is interested, i don't even have a swivel knife to put it in because i have my beader blade in my cheepo tandy knife.

20 shipped to the us 48, pics available of course but it is as described, no chips and has not been sharpened or anything like that

thanks

[cthepower]

You did not request a critique, but since you posted a pic, I will make some observations relative to this thread. The one thing that stands out the most relative to the angle blade being used is that the cuts end rather abruptly, rather than gradually growing shallower. With the straight blade you can simply flatten the blade (increase the surface area touching the leather) as you progress thru the cut, and the depth of the cut will gradually get shallower and taper to a graceful ending. This makes it easier to bevel your stems so that they gradually disappear.

One other thing, if you want to do accurate Sheridan style tooling patterns, you will want to draw your stems out much longer. The lower long line of each stem should extend past the stem below it and half way down the one below that. Your stems are currently ending at the top of the stem just below. Hope you understand this... it seems much clearer in my mind. If necessary, I can draw you and example.

As far as knife size, I use the 3/8's" blade for most everything. However, I do use a 1/4" for small items like watch bands and hat bands.

Respectfully,

Keith

Hello Keith,

You make an excellent on line instructor. Not many can explain things the way you do with such lovely detail; my decorative cuts improved immediately from your description. For this part though ; on the stems extending ; can you please draw me a picture. I am only just beginning carving and I would really like to begin with good habits. I appreciate it much !

Cheryl

[Colt W Knight]

I personally disagree. While I'm obviously not a floral carver, or up to your skill level Keith, I believe the angle blade gets a bad rap most of the time. Part of the problem is companies like Tandy that make all of their angle blades with the hideously acute angles (50-60 degrees) with a hollow grind and call them a standard angle blade when really they should be called detail blades. In my opinion, a good 'working' angle blade shouldn't have an angle of more than 25 degrees or less. Difference is, with a low-angled angle blade (sounds odd but it's the best thing I can think of to call it) when the handle is in the upright position, it's ready to go in a more natural hand position, presenting the same amount of blade into the leather as a straight blade angled back for normal cutting operations. For tight curves, you tilt it back like normal but the amount of tilt required is less. For long straights & flowing curves, the blade is angled forward slightly to present more blade length to the leather. For finger and finishing cuts, a low angle angled blade with a shorter bevel grind works very well as the shorter bevel gives a width similar to a straight blade presented at an angle and can be drifted in & out of cuts just as easily.

I had to figure this all out due to a wrist problem I have in my cutting hand. Due to a hockey injury years ago, having my wrist in certain positions for too long will cause the joint to lock up. The standard 'angled back' cutting position of a straight blade was just such a position and i would fatigue quickly when working on large carvings. I worked with Paul Z at Leatherwranglers to come up with a blade angle that solves the problem and I can use for all my cuts.

Not saying either one is right or wrong/better or worse, just my opinion on swivel blades in general. A couple of examples of pieces I have done using only a low angle 3/8" angle blade for those interested are attached.

Cheers,

Chris

Those are slick

[kseidel]

Hello Keith,

You make an excellent on line instructor. Not many can explain things the way you do with such lovely detail; my decorative cuts improved immediately from your description. For this part though ; on the stems extending ; can you please draw me a picture. I am only just beginning carving and I would really like to begin with good habits. I appreciate it much !

Cheryl

Cheryl, Thanks for the compliment. Some of these concepts are difficult to draw in words! Here are a couple of pics... the drawing is a pattern I recently did for a saddle seat, and the other pic shows the panel on the finished saddle. This shows how the higher stems extend thru the stems below.

[cthepower]

Thank you for the pictures Keith ; I see exactly what you are talking about now .