Differences in approach

[Johanna]

Daughter wanted a case for her Nintendo. Wade and I decided to make one. He headed into my shop and designed a box.

I came down a few hours later, and tried to keep my mouth shut. It's not easy making a box out of leather, and I've known experienced leatherworkers who don't do them. Wade has a background fabricating with metal and wood. Metal and wood do not flex or bend, and the measurements, if done precisely, will always match up. Ha ha...leather doesn't work like that.

I did this one:

Neither project is finished yet- still working on the fabrication. I need to round off her flap and set a snap, then dye it or let her stamp on it. His needs sewn together, and I know that no matter how careful he is, it isn't going to line up like he wants,and it's not going to satisfy him. I give him credit for the extreme detail of the design- it's all carefully thought out. I drew a free hand pattern and sewed one piece on- zip zip- I was taught time is money in the shop, and old habit die hard. If his goes together, she will want it as a jewelery box, but mine will be done first. I tried to explain gently that he may have overcomplicated the project, and he didn't like that, so he was back down there last night working on it. I warned him to count his holes and punch them exactly right the first time, no second chances.

I'm no genius at leatherworking- I'm no artist. I can make scrap just as easily as the next person. But all the years in the shop have taught me that KISS (keep it simple, stupid!) is the best way to approach fabrication issues. Wade is gifted with spatial thinking, finely honed from years of woodworking and metalwork. He makes things at work within point ten thousandths tolerances. I know leather. I can feel it and tell how it will stretch and act, and I understand and accept that it won't be consistent, even in the same hide. I thought this was an interesting experiment in how men and women solve problems. He will create a masterpiece, after sweating each detail in the shop for hours. I made a quick case for a kid and am cutting grass this afternoon. (Oh, my bad hand is sore from the lacing!) I thought this was an interesting comparison of how men and women approach problems. Both ways are "correct", one is just easier than the other.

Johanna

[TomSwede]

Ha ha I love this story and YES I do recognize myself in this, lol.

Thanks for sharing and may I say, I won't show this to my fiance' (spelling?) HA!

Tom

[$$hobby]

i think that you will approach the problem from your experience. i think that once he finishes the project and looks at yours he may see some changes that could be done or like his better.

everytime i do a new project i always think about what could have been done different. but sometimes you dont have the opportunity to make it right.

[Johanna]

i think that you will approach the problem from your experience.

Exactly. His box, made of leather or wood, would be technically perfect and correct. But those 4 90 degree corners he will have to sew and get to match will not come easy with leather, and everyone here is nodding with me. It's gonna be crooked, no matter how well he measured it, and how exact he was. And he was exact, I'm sure of it. I've watched him in his wood shop and every angle and miter is perfect. He likes to make things the old fashioned way, like our house is built, with no nails. But leather has different properties, so you work with it, rather than fight it. I wet the inside piece and shoved her box in there to give it a nice form fitting shape. He is making a straight up and down box that the game will sit in.

It will take 10 times longer to do, but is will also be 10 times nicer than mine when it is done.

Johanna

[UKRay]

It will take 10 times longer to do, but is will also be 10 times nicer than mine when it is done.

Johanna

At the end of the day Johanna, as long as your little lass is happy it doesn't really matter who makes the best/worst box. Personally, I like to see a little artistic license in things like that so don't go thinking yours will be the worse for it. For what it is worth, I hope she will love both of them... Ray.

[Tae]

That's a funny anecdote Johanna. I enjoyed the story.

However, don't you think it's his lack of experience in leathercraft rather than his maleness that is the main difference between his and your approach? If I may suggest a fun experiment, why don't you both make a wooden box and see how they turn out?

Tae

[wildrose]

I can kinda see where Johanna is coming from...differences in ability aside, let's use the example of cooking: most will agree that male chefs ROCK. Men tend to be more detail oriented in the kitchen.

[Jordan]

Coming from a woodworking background I tend to think in a concrete, symmetrical and measured way, working in other more flexible materials is a difficult transition to make, kinda shakes the foundations, but still leaves the question of the proper seat position unanswered

[Art]

Hi Johanna,

Lets look at from your daughter's point of view; One case for the Nintendo and one case for the.......iPod. It's a win win situation.

Art

Exactly. His box, made of leather or wood, would be technically perfect and correct. But those 4 90 degree corners he will have to sew and get to match will not come easy with leather, and everyone here is nodding with me. It's gonna be crooked, no matter how well he measured it, and how exact he was. And he was exact, I'm sure of it. I've watched him in his wood shop and every angle and miter is perfect. He likes to make things the old fashioned way, like our house is built, with no nails. But leather has different properties, so you work with it, rather than fight it. I wet the inside piece and shoved her box in there to give it a nice form fitting shape. He is making a straight up and down box that the game will sit in.

It will take 10 times longer to do, but is will also be 10 times nicer than mine when it is done.

Johanna

[Johanna]

Holly- a man will use every available dish in the kitchen to simply fry an egg. It is easier to feed a a man than clean up after him.

Jordan- at our house, the lid goes down, or the dog thinks he has a flavored water bowl. (YUCK!)

Art- his still isn't done, all mine needs now is the snap. I just went downstairs and put all my tools away in their proper place after he quit for the night. I think I will take the kids into his wood shop tomorrow and let them make things with his tools and wood. I wonder if he'll get the same knot in his stomach when he sees the kid pounding nails into his gourmet wood like I did when they were pounding 3D stamps into that piece of leather I had that had a JA brand in it that I'd been saving for, oh, 12 years or so, for just the right thing. I will also make sure they dump his hardware into several large coffee cans so the next time he needs a screw, he can root through the whole thing like I did for the four pieces of the snap I wanted to use. Ha ha...guess he won't be screwing anything any time soon.

Johanna

[Jordan]

I think everyone can relate to most of what you have experienced LMAO cuz most of it is a daily occurance around here. Now where did I put that tin can full of treasures!

[TwinOaks]

Coming from a woodworking background I tend to think in a concrete, symmetrical and measured way, working in other more flexible materials is a difficult transition to make, kinda shakes the foundations, but still leaves the question of the proper seat position unanswered

Jordan, I think you may have just defined why I like working in leather so much.

The left side of my brain screams for perfection- precise measurements, precise angles, equal depth tool marks, and completely streak free, blotch free, perfectly even shading/dyeing.

The right side of my brain says, nah, just do it this way, it'll be alright......See? Now isn't that better than all those silly numbers?

This brings up a question I've been meaning to ask: Am I weird because I use one modeling tool in each hand simultaneously? Granted, it's only on one piece of leather, but does anyone else do that?

Edited July 11, 2008 by TwinOaks

[Windy]

This brings up a question I've been meaning to ask: Am I weird because I use one modeling tool in each hand simultaneously? Granted, it's only on one piece of leather, but does anyone else do that?

I do believe it was President Taft who could write with both hands simultaneously and in

two different languages. Thus making you not weird.

WINDY

Edited July 11, 2008 by Windy

[ClayB]

Makes me wonder what you two could come up with if you worked together at it. You have years of experience working at Tandy and in a shop. You know leather and tools and how they both work. You know what it takes to make a profit. He has experience with different materials and enthusiasm to put that knowledge to use working on leather. You both have an opportunity to teach/learn from each other. If you add your practical knowledge to his technical skills, I bet you could make something really great. Teach him how to miter corners and gouge fold lines to make the sides line up perfectly. Help him mark the stitch holes and make sure everything lines up. He can probably make a wooden mold to fit inside to make sure it all fits right and lines up. Then add the kids into it. Let them stamp on the pieces or color it. By being there in the shop with them, you could have made sure that special piece of leather you were saving didn't get used (or decided this might have been the special project you had saved it all this time for) You could also make sure things got sorted back out and put away where they belong. I could use a lesson on that too. I think I'd do pretty well in a messiest shop contest. By making it a family project, you could achieve all the goals of this forum, education, entertainment and fellowship and end up with a really special project to boot. Then on second thought, you might all end up frustrated and screaming at each other. I can see that happening here. Maybe you should ignore this whole post.

But hey, in defense of men, I can mix up and cook supper with one pan and a fork where the women in my house seem to need to use every pot, pan, bowl, utensil and gadget in the kitchen!!

[Art]

Hi Clay,

Remember when you were single (that's 30 some years ago go for me), I only had one pan so I better be able to cook everything in it or I was eating out. One pan and a coffee pot, what more do you need? Makes it a lot easier to clean-up too.

Art

But hey, in defense of men, I can mix up and cook supper with one pan and a fork where the women in my house seem to need to use every pot, pan, bowl, utensil and gadget in the kitchen!!

[rdb]

I am not about to get into any of the "Couple Counseling", or Gender discussions, or the therapy you guys may all need after this round of gift building...lol...but what I would do is hand the big guy Stohlman's Case books, and say.." Here maybe this will help you with your project."

That's probably what I would do for any person trying to transfer their life experience to a new field. There is lots up there in the old noodle, sometimes you just need a little guidance from an outside source.

After that's all said and done, more than likely that box case will never be finished, because it'll be redesigned forty seven times..frikkin engineers....! :soapbox:

[hiloboy]

I like how everyones trying to be so nice here.. But everyone know there is only one right way... And that the MANS WAY OF DOING IT!!!

[TwinOaks]

Remember when you were single (that's 30 some years ago go for me), I only had one pan so I better be able to cook everything in it or I was eating out. One pan and a coffee pot, what more do you need? Makes it a lot easier to clean-up too. Art

Art, you really over complicated it. Just make the coffee in the pan...it's cuts down on the amount of degreaser you need. When I used to hike a lot (Scouts), I carried a pan, a spoon, a cup, and a frisbee. Frisbees make a nice raised edge dinner plate (so you don't drip), they're really hard to tear up, and they provide after dinner entertainment.

Nowadays, you actually have to plan single dish dinners. Used to be that it was the norm, because you only had enough food for one dish.

....mmmmm...ramen noodles. again.

[David]

Ok Johanna,

I'm makin' your birthday cake....one pan one utensil......

uhhh....... Do you want that cake scrambled or hard boiled?

Dave

[Pip]

I can kinda see where Johanna is coming from...differences in ability aside, let's use the example of cooking: most will agree that male chefs ROCK. Men tend to be more detail oriented in the kitchen.

I think, the difference is (and I am on rocky ground saying this, it is not meant in a sexist way at all) that women can be more intuitive with the materials they use and become what I call A-D thinkers, meaning they pick up a material feel it, bend it touch it and make/design, wheras men in general start with a design in mind and then try and fit the material to it making them D-A thinkers.

The masters of both sexes become both. A-D and D-A...... i have a male friend who can pick up anything and create it is fantastic to watch the process working, he can also work the other way around, sometimes at the same time.

Don't tell the misses about male chef's I'd have to cook better!!

[Crystal]

I'm not sure how much this will add to the conversation, but will be good for a few chuckles.

Crystal