Gluing Rubber On Rubber

[Kako]

Hello everyone. I've been looking online for some good information on how to glue rubber onto rubber using contact cement but have had not much luck. In my searches online, this forum keeps coming up with people who use Barge's cement so I thought I'll ask the experts over here. Even though it's a forum dealing with leather, Barges cement looks to be multi-purpose and so I'm sure some of you have a good idea of how to use it. Me personally, I am using Master's cement, but it looks to be similar enough to work the same.

I've tried gluing two pieces of rubber together, but after 24hrs, the material peels apart pretty easily. What's left looks to be a thin film on the pieces of rubber that is stretchy and not hard. Now, I know it's somewhat of a problem that the rubber is smooth, but it's got me wondering, how do they glue sneakers and boots together without the synthetic rubber parts just falling off? If anyone has any experience with this type of material and glue, you're experience will be much appreciated. I've included a picture to give you an idea of what I'm dealing with. Hope that helps.

[Art]

It seems that Barge has been changing formulae, and I got hooked on Master in the beginning, so I can tell you about that, this may not and probably will not work with Barge.

You have to know what type of rubber or polyurethane you have, Rubber, Crepe, Polyurethane, Thermal Plastic Rubber, or Thermal Plastic Polyurethane. You are using the correct procedure for the first three. The Thermal Plastic stuff requires a a long open time for the TP to harden, 45 minutes. The results you are getting is what typically happens when the TP doesn't harden, it peels. So, roughen both sides a little, coat both sides, and let dry for 45 minutes, then stick together.

If that doesn't work, a lot of guys use superglue.

Art

Hello everyone. I've been looking online for some good information on how to glue rubber onto rubber using contact cement but have had not much luck. In my searches online, this forum keeps coming up with people who use Barge's cement so I thought I'll ask the experts over here. Even though it's a forum dealing with leather, Barges cement looks to be multi-purpose and so I'm sure some of you have a good idea of how to use it. Me personally, I am using Master's cement, but it looks to be similar enough to work the same.

I've tried gluing two pieces of rubber together, but after 24hrs, the material peels apart pretty easily. What's left looks to be a thin film on the pieces of rubber that is stretchy and not hard. Now, I know it's somewhat of a problem that the rubber is smooth, but it's got me wondering, how do they glue sneakers and boots together without the synthetic rubber parts just falling off? If anyone has any experience with this type of material and glue, you're experience will be much appreciated. I've included a picture to give you an idea of what I'm dealing with. Hope that helps.

[Sylvia]

Usually if rubber cement isn't working you've done one of 2 things.

1. you put it on too thick. Thin coats are better.

or

2. You've tried to stick them together too soon.

[Art]

Pretty sure he's using contact cement.

Art

Usually if rubber cement isn't working you've done one of 2 things.

1. you put it on too thick. Thin coats are better.

or

2. You've tried to stick them together too soon.

[Sylvia]

Pretty sure he's using contact cement.

Art

Same rules apply don't you think? Every contact cement I've ever used required thin coats and allowing it to get to "slightly tacky" before meeting the materials.

[Luke Hatley]

Same rules apply don't you think? Every contact cement I've ever used required thin coats and allowing it to get to "slightly tacky" before meeting the materials.

P S...don't forget to rough up both surfaces.......

[Art]

The point here is that most shoe material now is made of synthetic, thermal plastic, or what I call "technical" rubber or poly. Technical just takes longer to harden up. While regular contact cement (e.g. Master Quick Drying, White can) may have an open time of 5-15 minutes, they have ones (e.g. Petronio's General Purpose, yellow can) that have much longer open times for use on the thermal plastic stuff. The Germans (Renia) have solutions such as primers,accelerators and retarders for the technical stuff and they use the same adhesive, different chemistry than Petronio.

Rubber or Paper Cement (same thing really) you really don't want to hold forever and really never hardens. It is not to my knowledge widely used in the shoe trade except for linings where it does seem to work better for squeak suppression. Best-Test by Union Rubber is probably the leader in this area.

Art

[Kako]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. It says Multi-Purpose cement if that makes a difference:

You have to know what type of rubber or polyurethane you have, Rubber, Crepe, Polyurethane, Thermal Plastic Rubber, or Thermal Plastic Polyurethane. You are using the correct procedure for the first three. The Thermal Plastic stuff requires a a long open time for the TP to harden, 45 minutes. The results you are getting is what typically happens when the TP doesn't harden, it peels. So, roughen both sides a little, coat both sides, and let dry for 45 minutes, then stick together.

If that doesn't work, a lot of guys use superglue.

Art

To be more specific, what I'm trying to glue are bicycle inner tubes. After doing a quick search, it says they're made of either latex or butyl rubber. I'll have to do some more searching later tonight to see what type of glues work on them.

P S...don't forget to rough up both surfaces.......

Since you both recommend roughing up the surfaces, that looks to be the next idea to try. Here's a piece of scrap rubber roughened up a bit.

The texture is much different when you compare the center and edge of the material. I'll let you guys know if that's the trick. 

[Northmount]

Look at a tire/tube repair kit. If you don't have a lot to do, the small tube might do what you want. Otherwise a autoparts jobber will have larger sizes. The is also a yellow rubber cement that is used to glue rubber weather stripping to car bodies. Might take a little experimentation to find the right combination for your purpose. A lot depends on what type of forces will be pulling it apart.

And yes, you really need to rough up the surface. Looks like your roughing is good.

In the old days, we used heat to vulcanize tube patches to the innertube.

There is a barges rubber cement that Tandy sells. It's not the temporary stationery type. I had to cut it apart ... Was supposed to be temporary so I could easily remove it.

CTG

[Nick69]

If it were Butyl rubber I would get the glue they use on pond liners. Its made specifically for it.

[Kako]

Hey guys, another try, another unsatisfying result. So I roughed up both services, made sure they were clean, applied cement to both surfaces, allowed it to sit for roughly 45 minutes before I pushed them together. After that, I clamped the piece of rubber between two pieces of metal to apply pressure and left it to dry until this morning. I do notice a somewhat stronger bond, but as you can see from the pic, it still pulls apart very easily. I would like the bond to be so strong that the material would break before the glue does, but that's just not the case. From the pic you can see that the glue is stretching as I pull the material apart. Is this normal? Doesn't contact cement ever get to the point where it loses it's stretchyness?I'm somewhat frustrated for something I felt I should have figured out by now. I've been playing with different glues and adhesives for half a month but with no luck.

In the old days, we used heat to vulcanize tube patches to the innertube.

northmount, the tire/tube repair kit sounds interesting, but my project will be to eventually glue the tubing to some type of canvas or fabric so I'm going to need alot of glue and would like to be able to buy it in large quantities. That also sounds interesting about vulcanizing tube patches to the tube with heat. On the directions it says may be activated with an infrared lamp, but I'm not sure what they mean. I do have a heat gun and I think I might just go and do some experimenting with that.

If it were Butyl rubber I would get the glue they use on pond liners. Its made specifically for it.

Thanks Nick, that's an idea to look into. Alright guys, thanks for your input. Off I go again looking for answers. 

[Art]

Going back to shoe trade practice, use superglue. If you don't know what it is, superglue usually works, so much so that a lot of shops use it exclusively. Even with the increased cost of superglue, labor cost wins the race.

Contact cement is not supposed to be stretchy, are you sure it is not rubber or paper cement?

With contact cement, if you leave it open past it's spec (open means painted on the product but not stuck together) you can reactivate it with heat, or you can paint another coat on.

Art

Hey guys, another try, another unsatisfying result. So I roughed up both services, made sure they were clean, applied cement to both surfaces, allowed it to sit for roughly 45 minutes before I pushed them together. After that, I clamped the piece of rubber between two pieces of metal to apply pressure and left it to dry until this morning. I do notice a somewhat stronger bond, but as you can see from the pic, it still pulls apart very easily. I would like the bond to be so strong that the material would break before the glue does, but that's just not the case. From the pic you can see that the glue is stretching as I pull the material apart. Is this normal? Doesn't contact cement ever get to the point where it loses it's stretchyness?I'm somewhat frustrated for something I felt I should have figured out by now. I've been playing with different glues and adhesives for half a month but with no luck.

northmount, the tire/tube repair kit sounds interesting, but my project will be to eventually glue the tubing to some type of canvas or fabric so I'm going to need alot of glue and would like to be able to buy it in large quantities. That also sounds interesting about vulcanizing tube patches to the tube with heat. On the directions it says may be activated with an infrared lamp, but I'm not sure what they mean. I do have a heat gun and I think I might just go and do some experimenting with that.

Thanks Nick, that's an idea to look into. Alright guys, thanks for your input. Off I go again looking for answers.