Besides Price...what's The Difference Between These Machines?

[ChimeraKennels]

Okay, how thin do you need to sew? I have some webbing on hand. What number/size of thread are you going to use? I'll sew a layer or two on my Cowboy stitcher and get back with you.

The part of your description that deals with the leather leashes reaching 1/2 inch is really the crossover point. You will damage the upholstery machine trying to climb that thick. I wish I could tell you otherwise, but I'd be lying.

Thanks. Two layers of nylon webbing for a total stack of about 3/16" with 138 thread would be as thin as I would go, but if you could drop off that to a single layer and go back up to both layers...that would be awasome. If that can be done reliably, then I am done looking.

[Wizcrafts]

Thanks. Two layers of nylon webbing for a total stack of about 3/16" with 138 thread would be as thin as I would go, but if you could drop off that to a single layer and go back up to both layers...that would be awasome. If that can be done reliably, then I am done looking.

I am working on a computer right now, but will dig up my webbing and sew it in a couple hours. I'll post a photo of the results.

[Wizcrafts]

I had time to sew the webbing, but not photograph it. I'll do that later today. It sewed one layer, two layers and 6 layers without hesitation. The knots are hard to hide in one layer, which is only about 1/16" thick. I would normally use #92 thread for that thinness.

[ChimeraKennels]

Thanks. My webbing is apparently thicker, as there is no way I could stack 16 layers of this webbing in one inch. The webbing I have is about 1/10th of an inch thick.

Thanks for your help. I was almost completely sold on the Cowboy 3500/4500 but then someone mentioned to me that it would have a hard time sewing something that thin. Now that you did this test, it looks like the cowboy is the one I will go with...which pleases me because Bob K has such an excellent reputation on MANY websites. He must really do a great job.

[Wizcrafts]

Thanks. My webbing is apparently thicker, as there is no way I could stack 16 layers of this webbing in one inch. The webbing I have is about 1/10th of an inch thick.

Thanks for your help. I was almost completely sold on the Cowboy 3500/4500 but then someone mentioned to me that it would have a hard time sewing something that thin. Now that you did this test, it looks like the cowboy is the one I will go with...which pleases me because Bob K has such an excellent reputation on MANY websites. He must really do a great job.

Here, as promised, are some photos of my CB4500 sewing webbing. One layer is about 1/20 inch. The needle is a #23 leather point. The thread is Cowboy #138 pre-lubricated bonded nylon.

[ChimeraKennels]

Thanks Wiz.

You have me sold on the Cowboy, for if you can sew a single layer of webbing that is about half the thickness of my webbing, then I don't see why I should have any problems with Cowboy...especially since I will pretty much always be using 2-4 layers of the stuff anyway.

Even though this means spending more money than I initially wanted to, it is good news as far as I am concerned because this means one machine should really be able to accomplish all my needs and desires for a sewing machine.

Lee

[Wizcrafts]

People used to tell me that these machines can't sew thin material, but I ignored them and did it anyway. I even shorten hems on jeans on my Cowboy. I have a table top attachment that helps keep flat work flat, rather than letting it fold over the arm. It's a very versatile machine once you get to know it.

[mikesmith648]

I have been following this conversation and I know what I want for Xmas!!! That or maybe your Union Wiz!!!

Do you have a lawayay plan:innocent:

[Wizcrafts]

I have been following this conversation and I know what I want for Xmas!!! That or maybe your Union Wiz!!!

Do you have a lawayay plan:innocent:

Maybe we can work something out on the ULS.

Mind you, the Cowboy is easier to master.

[Jimbob]

BOTH nylon collars and nylon leashes for retailing on my dog website (Chimera Kennels)...and perhaps a rare attempt at a belt, wallet, holster, or archery related equipment for personal use.

It is the collars and leashes that I am DEFINITELY going to be sewing...and definitely with nylon webbing...explaining my interest in the upholstery type machines. I will sew 2, 3, and 4 layers of this material. 2 layers is about 3/16", three layers is about 9/32," and 4 layers is about 3/8." The upholstery machines can handle all this stuff just fine I know because the lady that used to make my collars used such a machine. Unfortunately, she has since retired.

But which one is the most capable? If I do leather, it would be very limited. The leashes would the thickest harness weight leather (or whatever horse reins are made from) I could fold over without it cracking (probably about 1/4") material folded over to about 1/2" but the end would be tapered thinner so it would only be 1/2" thick for a few stitches. It would quickly taper thinner on the end side and would be down to 3/8" for about 3" and then taper out smooth like a ramp ending as I cut to the finished side. In other words, if the machine could do 1/2" stitch, it would be for a minimal time. Most stitching on the leash would be at 3/8" or so.

The leather leash is more important to me than is a leather collar. The leash is the "shock absorber" to a dog's lunge, not the collar, when doing protection work. Leather collars are too wide and thick (to displace impact) for them to offer any give.

If I could do the above with an upholstery machine, I might would forget about making leather collars, as it would likely be the leather collar that would require put me into a harness machine. My collars are 4 layers thick (each layer being about 1/8") for approximately 6" of the buckle and D ring area, then taper to 3 layers for the remaining length of the collar (average about another 16 in length). They are large, as they have to fit large powerful protection dogs. Maybe a gear reduced upholstery machine could do it or maybe it couldn't...but either way...even if I made them I would likely only make a few dozen such collars a year.

Some times I wonder if the Cowboy would be the perfect machine for me and wonder if it could do EVERYTHING I need, but then I hear such a machine (441 clone) may have difficulty getting a good stitch on the light weight nylon webbing...which is my PRIMARY reason for getting a sewing machine in the first place. I definitely do not want to spend more money for the cowboy (even though I would love that machine for leather work) if it can't get a good clean stitch on the thinner nylon webbing. And, even if it could do the nylon, if the lesser expensive Juki can meet my needs given my occasional interest in leather, than I wonder if that is not the way to go.

ANYWAY, I fear I have probably tested the patience of the members on this website...and I GREATLY appreciate the feedback. There is a wealth of knowledge here.

I found a Pfaff 545 machine that I thought was going to be perfect for me, looked great to ME, and within my budget, but the salesman was open with me about it being a reconditioned machine from a prison and therefore suggested it to have had a hard life (I was fooled by a new paint job and good pictures). I appreciated his honesty, as I don't want to get a problem with expensive parts either.

Cain Corso????

Beautiful animal!!

Jim