Holster Finish?

[UberSquid]

The couple holsters I've made for my own use I just dyed with Eco-Flo all in one acorn brown on horse hide then gone over with several coats of neutral shoe Polish. I've also been using a bees wax paraffin combo for burnishing the edges. I really like the finish I'm getting. It looks better than any of the mass produced stuff I have so I've been slowly making holsters for all my handguns.

The thing is that now I have friends asking if I will do some pieces for them and I want to make sure I'm giving them something quality. Is my Eco-Flo shoe Polish a good finishing method or should I be looking at something else. I know Eco-Flo gets little love on here but I love the depth I'm getting to the grain of the horse hide with it and really have no desire to change stains, I just wonder if I should have put something more on top than shoe Polish and wax

[Haystacker]

I personally like the eco flo dyes. I use an acrylic sealer and then sometimes shoe polish on top of that. Tandy's Sheen products are good but I like and use mop and glo cut 50/50 with water. Hope this helps. And, on a side note, where are the pictures?

best regards,

Jeff

[chiefjason]

I started with Resolene. It works well. I tried mop and glo but can't get it to work over the vinegroon. Not sure if it's the groon or the finish. I've tried cutting it 50/50, 60/40, and straight. Nothing works. The only one I could find is the multi surface, maybe that's the problem. I'm using Super Sheen right now cut 50/50 with water and it's working well too.

[katsass]

The couple holsters I've made for my own use I just dyed with Eco-Flo all in one acorn brown on horse hide then gone over with several coats of neutral shoe Polish. I've also been using a bees wax paraffin combo for burnishing the edges. I really like the finish I'm getting. It looks better than any of the mass produced stuff I have so I've been slowly making holsters for all my handguns.

The thing is that now I have friends asking if I will do some pieces for them and I want to make sure I'm giving them something quality. Is my Eco-Flo shoe Polish a good finishing method or should I be looking at something else. I know Eco-Flo gets little love on here but I love the depth I'm getting to the grain of the horse hide with it and really have no desire to change stains, I just wonder if I should have put something more on top than shoe Polish and wax

From the old grump. I've used Mop & Glo for around 50 years now --- cut 50/50 with water. I have found that application of it with a brush or sponge often will mess with a water based stain. (That's just one reason why I NEVER use them --- it also screws up when wet molding) A cure for that is to use an airbrush or even an old Windex pump sprayer. Just back off of the project and allow it to, sort of, 'mist onto the leather. Two shots (coats) is generally enough --- followed by a LIGHT coat of Kiwi neutral polish. Rub that stuff in by hand (or fingers really) no rag, commercial applicator or anything else. The warmth from your fingers allows the wax to penetrate better IMO. Buff out with a soft cloth. Mike

Edited June 9, 2012 by katsass

[chiefjason]

From the old grump. I've used Mop & Glo for around 50 years now --- cut 50/50 with water. I have found that application of it with a brush or sponge often will mess with a water based stain. (That's just one reason why I NEVER use them --- it also screws up when wet molding) A cure for that is to use an airbrush or even an old Windex pump sprayer. Just back off of the project and allow it to, sort of, 'mist onto the leather. Two shots (coats) is generally enough --- followed by a LIGHT coat of Kiwi neutral polish. Rub that stuff in by hand (or fingers really) no rag, commercial applicator or anything else. The warmth from your fingers allows the wax to penetrate better IMO. Buff out with a soft cloth. Mike

Have you ever used mop & glo over vinagroon? Are you now using the multi surface mop & glo? I'd love to get it to work. May have to try spraying on some scrap leather. For what I am doing, all I need is black. So the groon has been great, except for trying to finish it.

[katsass]

Have you ever used mop & glo over vinagroon? Are you now using the multi surface mop & glo? I'd love to get it to work. May have to try spraying on some scrap leather. For what I am doing, all I need is black. So the groon has been great, except for trying to finish it.

From the grump: Yes, I use it now. Here's a holster I did for a school security officer a while ago --- vinegaroon'd and finished with Mop & Glo multi-surface and hand rubbed Kiwi neutral polish. Just two coats to seal it --- then the Kiwi to polish it out. I don't ever try to get that nasty 'high gloss' on any of my stuff, makes good leather look like plastic. Mike

[chiefjason]

I guess there is hope. Now I need to figure out what I am doing wrong. Thanks! But in the meantime I ordered some black resolene and black atom wax to tinker with. I need to find a sprayer for the mop & glo and try that. I've tried brushing it on with a foam brush, a sponge, and rubbing it in with a rag. None of it worked.

[katsass]

I guess there is hope. Now I need to figure out what I am doing wrong. Thanks! But in the meantime I ordered some black resolene and black atom wax to tinker with. I need to find a sprayer for the mop & glo and try that. I've tried brushing it on with a foam brush, a sponge, and rubbing it in with a rag. None of it worked.

It may be that the leather you are using is heavy and takes up the ferrous (or ferric, I can never get it straight) acetate too well. I use 4/5 or 5/6 oz leather for my holsters. BUT, I use two layers of it. The outer shell may be vinegarooned, but the inner side is not. That gives me two grain sides to work with, providing a smooth interior to my work and, in addition, since the rigidity of a molded holster is formed in the grain area, it gives me two such layers, and a much firmer holster. Remember, all that the Mop&Glo does (for me) is to seal that outer side well, in order to resist moisture .... NOT put on a high gloss finish....... IMO, a super high gloss is a despicable thing to do to good leather, and makes it look like plastic. Mike

[chiefjason]

Mike, I really appreciate all the input. As an FYI here is where my issue is. Most of the holsters I am building are hybrids. One layer of 8-9 oz Hermann Oak leather as a backer and a kydex mold for the gun. These are belt slide holsters and that is why I am concerned about dying and finishing them. I am not deglazing them before grooning. And that may be some of the issue but the groon takes MUCH better that way; it's darker and less blotchy. I also groon both sides of the leather. I groon them, let them set a while, baking soda rinse, clean water rinse, let them dry a bit, then apply neatsfoot oil. Sometimes 2 coats of neatsfoot oil if it looks like it needs it. Let that dry about 24 hours. Then apply the mop & glo. Even with one coat I have problems. If I flex the leather it looks like the mop & glo turns gray where the grain is. Basically, the leather gets this gray spidery look to it. The resolene does not do this. And I'm not comfortable sending something like this out knowing it will likely do that around the belt loop area where the leather flexes. I would take a pic but I doubt it would show up.

Oh well, at least the groon saves me some money. It's not looking like the mop & glo will. I applied some to a discarded holster back with a sprayer yesterday. It did the same thing. Maybe it's me. lol

Here is one of the holsters I'm making for reference.

[katsass]

Chief --- frankly, I just don't know. I don't know beans about kydex except to say that I (personally) don't care much for it. I dye (or 'roon') all my stuff right after cutting. I submerge my leather in vinegaroon and allow it to soak up thoroughly. Rinse immediately in a soda bath and flush well with clear water. Allow to dry, and go to assembly I always test a scrap piece of the same leather I'm using for the rig in the 'roon', and if it doesn't seem to want to take as well as I want, I give it a bath in VERY strong tea, allow to begin to dry a little , then into the vinegar stuff. . When completed, I shoot a coat of neatsfoot oil all over and allow to sit for at least 24 hours.Then the application of my finish. So far, no problems with the stuff. Mike

[scc]

Mike, I really appreciate all the input. As an FYI here is where my issue is. Most of the holsters I am building are hybrids. One layer of 8-9 oz Hermann Oak leather as a backer and a kydex mold for the gun. These are belt slide holsters and that is why I am concerned about dying and finishing them. I am not deglazing them before grooning. And that may be some of the issue but the groon takes MUCH better that way; it's darker and less blotchy. I also groon both sides of the leather. I groon them, let them set a while, baking soda rinse, clean water rinse, let them dry a bit, then apply neatsfoot oil. Sometimes 2 coats of neatsfoot oil if it looks like it needs it. Let that dry about 24 hours. Then apply the mop & glo. Even with one coat I have problems. If I flex the leather it looks like the mop & glo turns gray where the grain is. Basically, the leather gets this gray spidery look to it. The resolene does not do this. And I'm not comfortable sending something like this out knowing it will likely do that around the belt loop area where the leather flexes. I would take a pic but I doubt it would show up.

Oh well, at least the groon saves me some money. It's not looking like the mop & glo will. I applied some to a discarded holster back with a sprayer yesterday. It did the same thing. Maybe it's me. lol

Here is one of the holsters I'm making for reference.

nice work !!!!

[mlapaglia]

Ive had the same "grey" issue with holsters and vinegaroon, but with resolene. I put down a layer of leather balm and atom wax first and it does not happen. Maybe the leather balm/atom wax acts as a surface to make the resolene hold better. The is after a olive oil rubdown. You might want to try that on a test piece when using the mop and glow. It looks like the finish is lifting up a little from the leather but not enough to crack or flake. Just enough to show some white or grey.

Michael

[Dwight]

The couple holsters I've made for my own use I just dyed with Eco-Flo all in one acorn brown on horse hide then gone over with several coats of neutral shoe Polish. I've also been using a bees wax paraffin combo for burnishing the edges. I really like the finish I'm getting. It looks better than any of the mass produced stuff I have so I've been slowly making holsters for all my handguns.

The thing is that now I have friends asking if I will do some pieces for them and I want to make sure I'm giving them something quality. Is my Eco-Flo shoe Polish a good finishing method or should I be looking at something else. I know Eco-Flo gets little love on here but I love the depth I'm getting to the grain of the horse hide with it and really have no desire to change stains, I just wonder if I should have put something more on top than shoe Polish and wax

UberSquid, . . . Eco-Flo probably makes Al Gore smile, . . . it does nothing for me.

It is, IMHO, a trash product.

If you use it, . . . be assured that if you do not fully, completely, and permanently seal that leather that has it in it, . . . the first or second or third time you customer gets into a big sweat, . . . his pants, shirt, underclothes, and everything else that comes into contact with that sweaty piece of Eco-Flo'ed leather, . . . will also become dyed. Ironically, it will be a lighter shade of the Eco-Flo you used.

I threw away the shirt and undershirt from my first project with it, . . . a shoulder holster, . . . but I kept the holster as a reminder.

Do your customers a favor, . . . give them a good product, . . . use quality leather, . . . use quality finishing techniques and products, . . . or you will be selling Yugo's.

May God bless,

Dwight

[chiefjason]

Ive had the same "grey" issue with holsters and vinegaroon, but with resolene. I put down a layer of leather balm and atom wax first and it does not happen. Maybe the leather balm/atom wax acts as a surface to make the resolene hold better. The is after a olive oil rubdown. You might want to try that on a test piece when using the mop and glow. It looks like the finish is lifting up a little from the leather but not enough to crack or flake. Just enough to show some white or grey.

Michael

I think you have mentioned the atom wax before with this issue from another thread. I have some on order to tinker with. It's on it's way so I'll have it later in the week. It's a learning process and this one has me stumped. Truth be told, being stumped is probably annoying me more than the finish issue. I've got plenty of scrap around now, so I'll be tinkering with a few things.

If I could get my leather pieces to move like the kydex ones I would be happy to do more leather. As it stands, kydex is the rage. I really like the style of holster I'm making and wear one regularly. But leather is a lot more fun. It's the difference between making something and building something IMO. Kydex is more building a holster, putting together the materials. All leather is more like making a holster, it's more of an art form than a science. Like a lot of things, it's a matter of taste. But since I am not selling my leather holsters it is freeing up the material to build myself another one and improve the design a bit.

[mlapaglia]

I understand. Part of the business is making what will sell.

So you have the money to make what you like

[mlapaglia]

I may have solved the Grey issue. At least for me. I take notes on every project. Another holster started the grey stuff today. I went into my notes and all the holsters that I have had produce the grey cast under the finish were not dipped in vinegroon. They all had it applied with a dauber. Everyone I fully dipped in Vinegroon did not produce a grey or white color at the bend points. I tried it today with some scraps that I knew were either dipped or daubed and after a finish or resoline had dried the ones that were dipped were fine and the ones that were dabbed with the vinegroon produced the grey "cracks".

Im going to try not applying the vinegroon with a dauber and see if that fixes it. I will also try using a paint brush with a large amount of vinegroon to see if that works. I think the daubber puts just enough to color the surface and when the leather is bent it shows the normal color below. A dip or maybe a really wet paint brush might get enough to make the color changes deeper in the leather.

Soaking the back of the newest holster seems to have fixed the problem The grey went away and as soon as its totally dry Ill double check it.

Anyway that's what I think is the issue and solution.

Edited June 14, 2012 by mlapaglia

[chiefjason]

I use a foam brush. And since I'm using one layer on the hybrids, I groon the piece front and back. Sometimes I will go back after the leather has set for 10-15 minutes and go over it again if it looks like it is not taking. I put it on pretty heavy. I know the last holster I practiced on was brushed and it went grey. I have not dipped any in a while. I may give it a try on the next one and see. I know a go through a lot more groon dipping. But it would be all good if I could get the M&G to work.

Another question. Do you deglaze before grooning? I find that it makes it harder for the groon to take. I may be stripping the tannins out with the alcohol or acetone that I have used. I just quit doing it since it seems to work better.

[Bronson]

I was wondering if it might be the leather itself and not the finish. The first one I used vinegroon on turned gray every place the leather flexed when I formed it. I too used a dauber to apply it.

Bronson

[mlapaglia]

It has done it on tandy and Herman Oak leather. I have some test strips drying so I can see if its the dip vs daubed issue.

[Steve Lowe]

From the old grump. I've used Mop & Glo for around 50 years now --- cut 50/50 with water......

I am lost here... what do you use the Mop*& Glo for?

[Dwight]

Mop & Glo = final finish. Everything else is done, . . .

After the M&G, . . . you can add shoe polish, neutral or colored, . . . but the M&G, . . . IS the finish, . . . the polish just makes it slick and purty.

May God bless,

Dwight

[katsass]

From the grump: Glad you got 'er figured out. I never have done anything but dunk my stuff in the vinegaroon, so that never even occured to me. Mike

[mlapaglia]

Ok, after much research and several test strips I believe I have solved the "Grey" issue at the bend points of a vinegeroon holster.

Time is the main factor. If I left the vinegrooned leather to dry and rest for at least 24 hours I could cover it with what ever finish I wanted to and it would not turn grey at the bend points. If I rushed it and didnt let it set for the full 24 hours it would grey at the bend.

It does NOT matter if you dip or swab, use Resoline or Atom Wax or any other thing I thought. The whole point is to let it rest for 24 hours before you oil and continue with the leather.

I have tried this 4 times now with test strips that were allowed to rest and some that were not. Always the same thing. Those I rushed gave me problem with grey. Those I allowed to rest were fine.

Im not sure it has to do with drying as much as allowing the chemical reaction to finish.

Hope this helps someone.

[chiefjason]

So you are drying 24 hours after the water rinse. Then oiling the leather after it dries for 24 hours? Then finishing. Just wanting to be sure. I've already oiled a batch of leather backs but will try it next go around.

[mlapaglia]

Yes, it sits after the last rinse and before the oil. To be honest I oiled some before and that seemed ok to. The main thing seems to be not to apply the finish or bend it before it sets. Mold and bone before vinegroon or after didnt seem to matter.