Machine Questions

[Pinsplitter]

Can't find my old thread, so here goes. I am a real newbie sorry.

I want to sew bags, from small ones to larger golf bags,

i can't justify a 36 inch long arm machine (talking $6000), so i know there will be compromises and some hand stitching needed.

I am researching cylinder arm machines from China.

I am in Australia and there almost no machines available here.

One that looks kinda ok has up to 11mm stitch, 20mm presser foot lift and 1000 rpm clutch motor.

It is Unison Feed.

What is Unison feed compared to Compound Feed?

They said that a servo motor would not be suitable for this machine, why would that be?

Can't you put a servo motor on any machine you want.

How much speed control would you have with a 1000rpm clutch motor?

i have only done a little sewing on an almost uncontrollable clutch motor machine and its wrecks nearly all my attempts to make a nice straight stitch.

If you change pulleys to slow a machine down, what final speed would be good?

I see that servo motors go from zero to about 250rpm i think.

What power would be required from a servo motor?

Sorry for so many dumb questions, hope you can help, thanks

[Northmount]

One comment about servo motors (any variable speed motor in fact), motor speed and motor torque are proportional. So low motor speed means low motor torque, and not enogh torque to punch through heavier leather. Gear or pulley speed reducers keep the motor speed up, and the gear or pulley speed reducer multiplies the torque by inverse speed ratio.

So for heavy/thick leather projects, keep the motor speed up and use gear or pulley speed reducers. That is the reason you see a 3 to 4" pulley on machines that sew up to 3/8" thickness, and a much largeer pulley on the heavy stitchers ... about 9" or greater. Someone rejigged theirs with an 11" pully.

CTG

[mogwild]

I thought you could buy Cowboy machines in AUS though Jim Saddler:

http://leatherworker...ndpost&p=121026

I've never met any of the Battlers as I live down-under, but I do know Ryan Neel as I sell his Cowboy Sewing Machines here in Australia.

While not 36", the cowboy CB5500's arm is 25"

Edited July 1, 2012 by mogwild

[Wizcrafts]

Can't find my old thread, so here goes. I am a real newbie sorry.

I want to sew bags, from small ones to larger golf bags,

snip

It is Unison Feed.

What is Unison feed compared to Compound Feed?

Unison feed, compound feed and triple feed all mean the same thing. The needle, inside foot and a feed dog move in synchronization, with an outside foot raising during this motion and lowering after each stitch, to hold down the material as the needle ascends. The two presser feet alternate up and down, allowing the machine to walk over different thicknesses on its own (within its mechanical limits or user settings). Triple/unison/compound feed is extremely positive and keeps multiple layers in alignment.

As for the first part, where you want to sew golf bags, we've been through this before, right? If you want to produce the same quality sewing results as the major manufactures produce, you will need some expensive and specialized sewing equipment. See the following list:

• 36 inch cylinder arm transverse feed, chainstitch needle and awl machine, made by Puritan.
• 36 inch cylinder arm regular forward feed chainstitch needle and awl machine, made by Puritan
• 5 cord Barbour's Irish Linen Thread (or best equivalent) run through liquid wax in the wax pots - or, #207 or #277 pre-lubricated bonded polyester thread
• Appropriate needles and awls for these thread types and sizes.

Why do I recommend Puritan machines for this job?

Because they are chainstitch machines, without bobbins that will run out while you are sewing inside a 36 inch long golf bag. As large as the 441 class bobbins are, they only hold so much thread, in larger sizes. Do you want to have to remove the bag to change a bobbin halfway down a 36" seam? If you intend to go into production, you cannot be dinking around with changing bobbins and removing a bag, then trying to resume the stitching without it being noticeable. A chainstitch machine only runs out when the top spool is finished, which you can see happening.

The lockstitch machine workaround would be removing the bobbin cover between bags and pulling the bobbin halfway out of the bobbin case, to visually check how much thread is left. Eventually, one could learn how many bags you can sew on a full bobbin, as your machine defines full.

Why transverse feed?

The seams are top stitched all the way along the side on the bag. You need a machine with transverse feed to sew up the arm. Period.

Why another machine with standard feed?

To sew around the body and to sew in the end cap.

I'm not sure if Puritan makes their machines with closed eye systems. You'd have to send them an email about this.

If you want to use lockstitch, closed eye machines, counting stitches, rather than chainstitch/needle-awl machines, you can order them from a Cowboy dealer. They are special order and come in 36 inch arm lengths for transverse and regular feed. You have a Cowboy dealer, Jim Saddler, in Childers, Qld, Australia. Jim is a member of this forum. Look him up via his profile and contact him about the right machines for the work you wish to do.

Before you can even begin to make golf bags, you need to buy a good one and disassemble it to see how it was put together. Then, make your own pattern that is not a copy of someone else's work and have clicker dies constructed to cut out the pieces. Then have someone with a 40 ton clicker press punch out the parts from your leather. All you have to do is sew the parts on the specialized machines.

I held off mentioning this for the last item, but you may or may not also need a bell knife skiver machine. They are used to reduce the thickness of leather where the seams mate, or overlap. They go for between 1.5 and 3 k, depending on the quality, capabilities and feed type.

You should be able to get this into production for 10 to 20 grand if you make good deals.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Wizcrafts

[Pinsplitter]

Thanks for all that guys.

I probably should have explained more clearly what I want to make.

I do not want to set up a professional factory.

In a sense I want to do design testing of the golf bags,

and actually make some simple golf bags and travel bags and head covers.

More the shoulder carry bag style and "stand bag" style, 6 1/2 inches and 8 inches diameter.

So I am not talking about the large complex "staff" bags you see on tv tournaments.

Even simple things like the handle and strap need proper placement so the bag balances nicely when its full of clubs.

The size and placement of pockets and things like a clip-on water bottle pocket are all things I want to test before sending design to the factory.

For example a simple do it myself bag would be "collapsible" soft construction until final insertion of support struts,

so for my own work the long seam would have to be done by hand for a solid bag with a shell.

The real bags for sale will be made by a factory in China.

I want to learn about design and construction so I can specify what I want and know if its a sensible thing to ask of a factory.

So I am thinking that with a machine with a 15 inch arm I would be able to do a lot of things, not everything.

The one I am looking at is a copy of the Juki TSC-441.

sews 14mm thick

stitch 0 - 11mm

presser foot lift 20mm

800 rpm

550 watt

The servo motor is $560 versus $165 for clutch motor.

That's why I am wondering if a clutch motor can be okay if you get the speed right.

Thanks for all your help here, I am slowly learning the basics.

There's a lot to know isn't there? haa haa...

[Techsew Ron]

Thanks for all that guys.

I probably should have explained more clearly what I want to make.

I do not want to set up a professional factory.

In a sense I want to do design testing of the golf bags,

and actually make some simple golf bags and travel bags and head covers.

More the shoulder carry bag style and "stand bag" style, 6 1/2 inches and 8 inches diameter.

So I am not talking about the large complex "staff" bags you see on tv tournaments.

Even simple things like the handle and strap need proper placement so the bag balances nicely when its full of clubs.

The size and placement of pockets and things like a clip-on water bottle pocket are all things I want to test before sending design to the factory.

For example a simple do it myself bag would be "collapsible" soft construction until final insertion of support struts,

so for my own work the long seam would have to be done by hand for a solid bag with a shell.

The real bags for sale will be made by a factory in China.

I want to learn about design and construction so I can specify what I want and know if its a sensible thing to ask of a factory.

So I am thinking that with a machine with a 15 inch arm I would be able to do a lot of things, not everything.

The one I am looking at is a copy of the Juki TSC-441.

sews 14mm thick

stitch 0 - 11mm

presser foot lift 20mm

800 rpm

550 watt

The servo motor is $560 versus $165 for clutch motor.

That's why I am wondering if a clutch motor can be okay if you get the speed right.

Thanks for all your help here, I am slowly learning the basics.

There's a lot to know isn't there? haa haa...

You'll be fine with this machine. Clutch motor can be ok if you can handle the speed, this may take some time to get used to.

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

Jim Beaton (JimSaddler) has offered to spend time with you and show you the intricacies of what you want to do. Stop buggerising around and take him up on the offer. flying back to Queensland and spending a day with Jim is going to save you tens of thousands of dollars in the long run and get your project up and running.

[Leatherbaron]

I bought a Sewing machine of Jim, last year , had parts failure in Electric motor and also never got all the parts for the sewing machine that were supposed to be sent, dozens of phone calls and text messages go me now action. Jim seemed like a nice guy but is just a pain to get warrenty or parts from.... my problem is now 12 months old and still no response . Terry O'Brien Darwin NT

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Can't find my old thread, so here goes. I am a real newbie sorry.

I want to sew bags, from small ones to larger golf bags,

i can't justify a 36 inch long arm machine (talking $6000), so i know there will be compromises and some hand stitching needed.

I am researching cylinder arm machines from China.

I am in Australia and there almost no machines available here.

One that looks kinda ok has up to 11mm stitch, 20mm presser foot lift and 1000 rpm clutch motor.

It is Unison Feed.

What is Unison feed compared to Compound Feed?

They said that a servo motor would not be suitable for this machine, why would that be?

Can't you put a servo motor on any machine you want.

How much speed control would you have with a 1000rpm clutch motor?

i have only done a little sewing on an almost uncontrollable clutch motor machine and its wrecks nearly all my attempts to make a nice straight stitch.

If you change pulleys to slow a machine down, what final speed would be good?

I see that servo motors go from zero to about 250rpm i think.

What power would be required from a servo motor?

Sorry for so many dumb questions, hope you can help, thanks

PM sent, all the best

[Singermania]

Hi, I get what you say about a collapsable bag, however for normal bags a 15" arm wont get you very far. There is a machine specifically designed for golf bag manufacture, I think it was called a "Taylor" but could be wrong, maybe someone else out there will know for sure. I believe its a very long arm walking foot machine. Nothing wrong with clutch motors, bear in mind some are fast and some slow....... on top of that you can reduce or increase pulley size to suit or fit a speed reducer. With the servo motors go for a good one, I've had the displeasure of buying some Chinese ones and they are rubbish, apart from all the error codes coming up, it doesn't matter how slow you set them they still start with a jump. regards Steve

[Wizcrafts]

I have mentioned this before and will repeat it once again. Golf bags are best sewn on two types of long (~36") cylinder arm machines. One has standard feed, for sewing across the ends, or across the center area. The other machine has transverse feed that sews up the arm, towards the body. It is used to join the long seam that runs from top to bottom of the bag. You can either use a lockstitch or chainstitch machine for golf bags, since you don't see the inside threads.

Transverse feed machines for leather bags are usually special order machines, built on demand.

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

Call Lefflers in Melbourne. There was a machine of the type you want sitting in their warehouse.

It is owned by a customer and he might have taken it back now but they can put you in touch with him. He wanted $3000 but that was a year ago.

Thanks for all that guys.

I probably should have explained more clearly what I want to make.

I do not want to set up a professional factory.

In a sense I want to do design testing of the golf bags,

and actually make some simple golf bags and travel bags and head covers.

More the shoulder carry bag style and "stand bag" style, 6 1/2 inches and 8 inches diameter.

So I am not talking about the large complex "staff" bags you see on tv tournaments.

Even simple things like the handle and strap need proper placement so the bag balances nicely when its full of clubs.

The size and placement of pockets and things like a clip-on water bottle pocket are all things I want to test before sending design to the factory.

For example a simple do it myself bag would be "collapsible" soft construction until final insertion of support struts,

so for my own work the long seam would have to be done by hand for a solid bag with a shell.

The real bags for sale will be made by a factory in China.

I want to learn about design and construction so I can specify what I want and know if its a sensible thing to ask of a factory.

So I am thinking that with a machine with a 15 inch arm I would be able to do a lot of things, not everything.

The one I am looking at is a copy of the Juki TSC-441.

sews 14mm thick

stitch 0 - 11mm

presser foot lift 20mm

800 rpm

550 watt

The servo motor is $560 versus $165 for clutch motor.

That's why I am wondering if a clutch motor can be okay if you get the speed right.

Thanks for all your help here, I am slowly learning the basics.

There's a lot to know isn't there? haa haa...

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

I have a transverse feed singer 119 series but it is only a short arm. Cowboy does offer one.

I have mentioned this before and will repeat it once again. Golf bags are best sewn on two types of long (~36") cylinder arm machines. One has standard feed, for sewing across the ends, or across the center area. The other machine has transverse feed that sews up the arm, towards the body. It is used to join the long seam that runs from top to bottom of the bag. You can either use a lockstitch or chainstitch machine for golf bags, since you don't see the inside threads.

Transverse feed machines for leather bags are usually special order machines, built on demand.