Backside Of Stitch Looks Awful

[robc]

Hi guys- any thoughts on the non awl initial piercing side looking pretty decent but the back side looks awful.

couple of things I make sure to do:

1. super sharp awl

2. slow and meticulous

3. never pierce thread

4. very concentrated on diamond awl angle (45 degrees) and horizontal piercing angle (always 180) and depth of awl pierce.

5. 7 tpi on thick leather. tandy nylon waxed thread, pliers to pull needle thru.

6. lots of light.

Also tried without awl and thinner leather/sharp needle.

7. read al's book on hand stitching 2x.

8. left handed- if that makes any difference, also try to pull the thread the same way.

Same results every time- the back side looks like a drunken sailor on a stormy sea did it. Front side much better, but not perfect- I am ok with that but maybe there is something I am missing.

see pic- I actually forgot that the back side is always the bad side so when I was putting this together I did the opposite and started the back side first.

You guys probably know what I am doing wrong, let me know what glaringly obvious thing I am missing.

[Sylvia]

Hmmm.... hard to tell from those pictures, but it almost like your "back" side is looser than your front.

I use a punch rather than an awl to make my holes... But are you using an overstitch wheel to or marking your stitches prior to using the awl? If not you might try that. Also when I do stitching I perform the same exact movements over and over.... often pulling the first thread out of the way while I put the needle through for the second thread. I do this the same way ever time.... then pull both treads snug.

[Ken Nelson]

Hmmm.... hard to tell from those pictures, but it almost like your "back" side is looser than your front.

I use a punch rather than an awl to make my holes... But are you using an overstitch wheel to or marking your stitches prior to using the awl? If not you might try that. Also when I do stitching I perform the same exact movements over and over.... often pulling the first thread out of the way while I put the needle through for the second thread. I do this the same way ever time.... then pull both treads snug.

saddlemaker that taught me, always had us use an awl as you do not want to remove material so the slit will close up behind you. If you are using two needles, making the harness makers stitch, the advice above is really good. If you are using a jerk needle, making a 301 stitch, it takes some practice to get the lock in the center of your work and both sides the same tightness. HTH. Ken

[Sylvia]

Another thing I do is I keep the back side toward my dominant hand. (right handed, back side to right side) I don't know if that makes a difference or not, but it may be helpful

[SooperJake]

I'm pretty green, too, and have been struggling with this same problem, but here are the things I have learned in the last couple of days that helped me out a lot.

My awl is the collet style, where the blade is removable, and the handle has two flats on it. I positioned the blade so that I can reference the flat on the handle for horizontal. This solved two things. First, it ensures that my blade is angled to the groove properly. Second, the flat gives me a horizontal reference, so that I am piercing straight through the leather. If yours is fixed blade type, put a reference line on the handle for visual blade positioning.

Are you using a pony to hold the leather?

Next, I cut the stitching grooves a little deeper by pressing harder on the handle. This was huge. I practiced on scrap, paying close attention to how much pressure I was placing on the cutter, and cut parallel grooves over and over until they got more consistent. I also did this with the cutter set at different widths from the edge. And, I cut some with my straight cutter too. Initially I wasn't making them deep enough. Now the thread can be made flush.

Also, at the suggestion of several good folks on here, who's names escape me this late at night, I shortened my awl blade using a few small pieces of leather. The awl is shortened to pierce through plus about 1/8". Now the holes on each side are much closer to being the same size, even though the front side is a smidge bigger .If the slot cut from the awl is too big, your thread can run high in one side of the cut, and low on the other side. Then, maybe low low high high low high low low, and so on. This makes the stitch line appear to squiggle all over the place. It is even worse if you have one of those wide awls. Mine is maybe 1/8" wide or so.

I now back up my awl punctures with a wine cork, and I slowed down and try to be really conscious of making the hole. I had stabbed myself a few times with the awl and I think I was a little timid. The cork works awesome, and was also a suggestion from this forum.

Get smaller thread, and if your needles are from Tandy, in the words of katsass on this forum, "They're too damn big". Use nothing larger than a 0, size 1 is even better. You may be wandering with your needle on account of the eye being big enough for a camel to skip through, and you are forcing it too much. Springfield's has 0 needles and thinner thread. PM me for part numbers if you want, I just received some this week. Campbell Randall has 1's and even smaller. Now, I cannot pull the needle through bare handed, but I can with nitrile surgical gloves on, which add a kind of stickiness. My opinion is the pliers are a bit over the top. I am a greenhorn.

You can also practice on any heavy material, like old blue jeans or canvas, if you are parched for leather. For the stitching groove, mark a line with a pencil or pen. Be sure to glue the material together (5-6 layers) with white glue, real good so it is stiff. An old belt or old leather boots can be salvaged for practice leather, which is ideal. Then you don't feel bad about wasting good leather. This does another thing: I taught woodworking for years, and what held back the student most was that they were not trying to learn a technique, they were try to MAKE A THING. And so, the fear of screwing up the project kept them from experimenting. Kept them from learning. I just caught my very self guilty in the act, and had to laugh because I figured I shoulda known better. So, in woodworking, especially woodturning, which was my specialty, I had the student turn cheap wood literally into chips and dust. Stacks of 12" long 2x4 pieces ripped into 2x2's. They had nothing to show for the efforts but experience, and piles of sawdust to sweep up. It is really a special gift to the instructor when all of the sudden the lights go on, and that AHA! moment shows across the students face.

I hope some of this helps. Try breaking the individual steps down and you might find where your weakness is. Mine was mostly the awl. I have to be careful because I let the end of the handle dip, and the hole ends up angled upward on the backside, and I miss the groove or end up too high.

Jake

[Radthalan]

To me it looks like you didn't cut a stitching groove on the back. So your stitches are sitting on top of the grain, rather inside a channel. Try tapping, rolling, or rubbing the back stitches flat and going over it with a over-stitch wheel. That might help with the appearance.

[katsass]

Hi guys- any thoughts on the non awl initial piercing side looking pretty decent but the back side looks awful.

couple of things I make sure to do:

1. super sharp awl

2. slow and meticulous

3. never pierce thread

4. very concentrated on diamond awl angle (45 degrees) and horizontal piercing angle (always 180) and depth of awl pierce.

5. 7 tpi on thick leather. tandy nylon waxed thread, pliers to pull needle thru.

6. lots of light.

Also tried without awl and thinner leather/sharp needle.

7. read al's book on hand stitching 2x.

8. left handed- if that makes any difference, also try to pull the thread the same way.

Same results every time- the back side looks like a drunken sailor on a stormy sea did it. Front side much better, but not perfect- I am ok with that but maybe there is something I am missing.

see pic- I actually forgot that the back side is always the bad side so when I was putting this together I did the opposite and started the back side first.

You guys probably know what I am doing wrong, let me know what glaringly obvious thing I am missing.

O.K. From the grump; Sounds like you have it going pretty well, BUT--- #1: ALWAYS start a stitch from the same side. Front or rear doesn't matter -- as long as you always poke that first needle from the same side.

#2; Poke the needle through and snug up well, pull to thread back towards yourself and stick your second needle in the hole from the opposite side.

#3: Pull the second thread up until you have a small loop remaining --- NOW, look at where the thread from your first needle is placed --- it's either inside of that loop or outside. I personally keep it outside. If inside it will ride on top of the first thread when pulled tight --- outside it rides below the first.

#4: Decide which way is easiest for you and either pull that first thread out of the loop, or leave it. Pull the second thread up snug, give them both a tug and go on to the next.

Remember that each single stitch MUST be done EXACTLY the same as the previous one -- or, one side or the other of your work will appear to 'wobble'

A pic of a holster showing both sides of my stitching. Mike

.

,

[jimsaddler]

Hi Robc

Left handed makes a lot of difference. I had a worker who was left handed and while she was learning she could never make a good stitch as she was copying us RT handers. Then she took her Awl and Needles home and came back stitching her way which was back to front to our way. Suffice it to say she ended up as a very fast stitcher and very neat without using a Pricking Iron. Her stitching was the same slope as a Sewing Machine. What you need is lots of practice, try a Waxed Braided Polyester Thread. There are pricking irons for LH stitchers in the UK if you ask arround. Maybe The Whiskered Bat might get you a lead.

What I see in your photo's is a reasonable effort just needing practice and a bit more practice.

By the way through your back stitch forward and up over the needle to get you front side looking right.

I hope this is of help to you.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

Hi guys- any thoughts on the non awl initial piercing side looking pretty decent but the back side looks awful.

couple of things I make sure to do:

1. super sharp awl

2. slow and meticulous

3. never pierce thread

4. very concentrated on diamond awl angle (45 degrees) and horizontal piercing angle (always 180) and depth of awl pierce.

5. 7 tpi on thick leather. tandy nylon waxed thread, pliers to pull needle thru.

6. lots of light.

Also tried without awl and thinner leather/sharp needle.

7. read al's book on hand stitching 2x.

8. left handed- if that makes any difference, also try to pull the thread the same way.

Same results every time- the back side looks like a drunken sailor on a stormy sea did it. Front side much better, but not perfect- I am ok with that but maybe there is something I am missing.

see pic- I actually forgot that the back side is always the bad side so when I was putting this together I did the opposite and started the back side first.

You guys probably know what I am doing wrong, let me know what glaringly obvious thing I am missing.

[katsass]

From the old grump: What I said before. The katsass be a southpaw -- been that way for over 70 years. Mike

Edited July 6, 2012 by katsass

[Rayban]

Try all you want...the back side will NEVER look as good as the front.....even the Grump shows that.

Keep practicing, looks like you have a good start.