reuben cogburn Report post Posted September 1, 2012 I've been doing some repair/alteration work on harness and straps. I'd like to get more as I live in a mushing area, etc. But am not sure how to price it out. I'm putting up flyers, but need to determine an hourly rate that incentives repair vs replacement, but don't want to work for free.... What do you guy's charge?? p.s. sorry if this isn't in the right spot.... please ove as needed regards... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluesman1951 Report post Posted September 1, 2012 Wow how would we in the lower states know that ? I imagine in most cases you would be betting your life on the performance of the equipment and repairs. Serious business so my advice is to be fair and check out what your competition charges and what the cost of new stuff costs . All the expenses up there are huge so one must stay afloat and wages must make that possible. The yellow pad rules all things business and like it or not the bottom line is always the bottom line . Hard to work if you dont have a roof over your head . I've been doing some repair/alteration work on harness and straps. I'd like to get more as I live in a mushing area, etc. But am not sure how to price it out. I'm putting up flyers, but need to determine an hourly rate that incentives repair vs replacement, but don't want to work for free.... What do you guy's charge?? p.s. sorry if this isn't in the right spot.... please ove as needed regards... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reuben cogburn Report post Posted September 1, 2012 Wow how would we in the lower states know that ? I imagine in most cases you would be betting your life on the performance of the equipment and repairs. Serious business so my advice is to be fair and check out what your competition charges and what the cost of new stuff costs . All the expenses up there are huge so one must stay afloat and wages must make that possible. The yellow pad rules all things business and like it or not the bottom line is always the bottom line . Hard to work if you dont have a roof over your head . Well... the wages here aren't much different than anyplace else actually. An average blue collar wage averages from $10/hr plus... gas is $3.89 gal... Mechanics make $65-$90 hr... The only harness/saddle guy moved to Hawaii a few years ago, as he was tired of the cold.... I was thinking $15/hr plus material with a minimum. Most of the dog harness is webbing these days and a medium harness can be picked up for about $20+.... My roof is paid for.. my saddler sticher works good and I can sew a harness that my Karelian can't break... but it isn't rocket science either.... it is pretty simple stuff... regards... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoubleC Report post Posted September 1, 2012 Reuben, it's rocket science to people who can't do it. When I first asked that question I was told 2x the price of supplies plus what I wanted hourly. If they can get a new harness for 20 bucks how are you going to compete with that? You could always make your own leather harnesses so more people could see the advantages of leather vs nylon in length of time it lasts and comfort of the animal. If you can't find a way of convincing people to conserve their heritage and the heritage of sled dogs I don't know what else to suggest. Hit the historical society and get them behind you, and conservationists groups that are 'green.' If it's still usable don't throw it away, still USE it. You're in a tough place with a tough market but not an impossible one. They're making that nylon crap for draft horses too, and it's cheaper, but plenty of people still want leather. Go get 'em. Cheryl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SooperJake Report post Posted September 2, 2012 Read this: http://artsandcrafts.about.com/od/accountingandpricing/a/priceyourcrafts.htm And This : http://yourcraftbusiness.com/Your-Craft-Business/pricing-handcrafted-work.html And then google this " how to charge for your craft work" You must approach the issue of "what to charge" just like any other company. The short answer id "KNOW THE MARKET" Find folks that do custom work like yourself. Both better, and worse quality. Find companies making the same product commercially. This is a REALLY boiled down snapshot of where to begin. If you were making space shuttles, you'd pretty much have a captive market. So, you'd get a lot more for your space shuttles without competition. That is, provided somebody was in the market for a space shuttle in the first place. See what I mean? WHERE you sell your goods is pretty important too. Is it reasonable to expect a person at a flea market to pay $5000 for a dress, or would that person most likely go to a fancy smancy store for something of that asking price? How is your product different, better, more affordable than what already exists? Why is your asking price more than that guy's asking price? You better have an answer ready for the customer that asks you that, and not a fumble stumble one either. In sales we called that the "$2 dollar story", meaning we had a reasonable answer as to why our widget was worth $2 more than the next guy's widget. Features and benefits. You're one-up on the competition, even if you have the identical widget, if you can explain the features and benefits better than he can. Ever heard of "Know thy self"? We called that "Know they shelf". Everything above is to be taken with the "pill" of understanding that I assume you intend to make a profit from your handiwork. Folks that sell their stuff "just to make a little to support their hobby" KILL the market. You should hear my teeth gritting right now. You can get TONS of free and low cost information from retired professionals in all facets of the business world here: SCORE http://www.score.org/ Time to pull the turkey out of the deep frier.... Bumbadeeda Bumbadeeda.....Happy sales, to you... Jake Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGGUNDOCTOR Report post Posted September 2, 2012 As a former business owner (machine shop),and now looking to start another business, here is my take on it. You need to sit down and figure all of your expenses; materials, shipping, tooling, driving, power, advertising,etc that are related to the business. Determine your shop rate. Remember that business may or may not be 40hrs a week. Sometimes more, sometimes much less to none. Study your competition; price,customer service, shiping, location,,,,, You may want to see if your library has Tony Hsieh's (pronounced Shay)book Delivering Happines a path to profits,passion, and purpose. HE has built Zappos.com into a billion dollar a year business with total customer satisfaction as a main target of the company. Dave Ramsey also has some good info on his site , as well as his radio program for small businessmen. Study successful businessmen to see what they do differently. Sarah Blakley turned $5,000, and an idea for undewear (Spanx)into 1 billion$$$ 12 years later without outside help, no paid advertising, and no loans. How? Passion, and drive. Your business will be successful, if you put the effort into it. There is no easy answer to your question as every location, and product has its unique qualities. To make it simple I'll say--Make a quality product, charge a fair price, and lean heavy on customer satisfaction. Happy customers are the ones who pay the bills, unhappy customers can cost you your job. Good Luck with yor endevor! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Reaper Report post Posted September 20, 2012 I have no idea what to charge for a dog harness. I make belts that are made to order and I have found that you will have customers that want quality, while others will say that they can get it cheaper at Wally World. Most folks understand the saying "you get what you pay for!", the others that buy nylon would probably purchase weaved grass cuttings if it lasted for a day! Good advice here on material charges and hourly fees. I am sure that you will do fine once you get established. First and formost - do business the way I do! The old fashioned way! ; ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwight Report post Posted September 20, 2012 Several decades ago, . . . I was doing some electrical work with a friend. His "formula" was simple, . . . figure out your material cost, . . . give that $$ figure a "times 3", . . . and you have a good starting point on the charge. Leather work, I have found is very similar, . . . at least for me. Another thing I personally appreciate, . . . therefore I pass on to my customers, . . . "Free Delivery". I build the shipping and insurance costs into my product. True, the guy up the street where I drop it off on my way to church, . . . he pays a bit more, . . . and the guy in Southern Cally gets a bit of a break, . . . but it washes in the long run as far as I am concerned. The main thing though, . . . you absolutely, positively, without a doubt need to know for sure how much it is costing you, . . . then you can work on how to price it to your customers. Get that down first. May God bless, Dwight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
15mules Report post Posted September 20, 2012 Ok, I am new to the leatherworker forum, but reading though all the comments, there is some really good advice here. I think the fact remains, if you intend to do this as a buisiness, you have to make a profit. That all starts with knowing your expenses(real expenses, not kinda close expenses, but actual numbers) How much profit do you have to make? Honestly, it depends on if this is your only income ( right or wrong, or good or bad for buisiness). Personally, I decided long ago, if I was going to do certain things for buisiness, I would make a decent profit, otherwise I would rather not do it. I think from your post your stuff is paid for and maybe a large profit is not your #1 goal?? I would ask this question. What other skills do you have and what would you make hourly working for someone else using those skills?? The fact is, if I can make say $65.00 an hour fixing cars, then it would make no sence for me to do leatherwork for anything less, from a buisiness stand point! Now, lets say I do not need the money and would just rather do leatherwork anyway, well then, that makes it a hobby not a buisiness. I personally do some leatherwork, as part of a gun buisiness I have. The way I see it, I not only have to pay for the material and the cost of electricity and consumables, but I also have to pay for the machinery and their eventual repairs or replacement. The fact that my sewing machine is paid for makes no difference to me, it should still receive some income for being used. There is alot of truth to it being Rocket Science to the unskilled observer or customer. Your skill level and experience makes it seem simple, but their lack of skill makes it equally mistifying that somehow, you can take a tanned cowhide and make it into a useable product. Never sell your skills and investment in tools and equipment short. I take every opportunity to remind my customers that I have alot invested in machinery and training. Letting your customer know that information, re-assures them that the price is worth it. I miss some sells, because I am not the cheapest, but you will gain the kind of customers you need to make a buisiness profitable, by maintaining the high standards, that the informed customer wants and is willing to pay for. Not all customers want a high quality item or understand it's value. You will never benefit from lowering your price to get or keep that customer. Now to answer your question. Without knowing the details of your financial situation or investment in tools and machinery and inventory, I think the person who said roughly 3 times the material cost is probably a good rule of thumb. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handstitched Report post Posted September 21, 2012 You probably now have more info than you can poke a stick at. But the simple rule of materials x 2 or x 3 ( depending on the item) is probably the simplest, but safest rule, and a rule that I apply, and still be able to make a profit and put $$ in my bank. But one other rule I stick to is , look after the locals, (or ' mates rates' as we call it in Australia) as in , the price I charge for the local people in my small country town, maybe slightly less than what I would charge at my market stall at various venues outside my town. And being the only leather worker ( and horse rug repairer) for about 2 hours in any direction , I am often in high demand. I have hardly done any advertising,, no web sites etc. with the exception of hand made flyers & business cards, and I'm flat out, and with a 3 month waiting list on orders, and it all just started as a hobby, and now a full time business, and I've never been happier. Good luck in your venture, and I hope its is a complete success. HS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jazznow Report post Posted September 22, 2012 (edited) Hi. I know your problem. I always have difficulties to price my stuff too. At my last fair I had a nice chat with some of the other craftspeople and they all were like 'woah just 200 eur for that bag, that is a joke isn't it?' (it was a full carved steam punk messenger bag, but with a simple construction) And I thought 200 is at the higher end of the scale, lol. Im glad I don't have to make a living with my craft (though I want to someday). As long as I do it as a hobby, I can take any price I want. A price that feels good to me. And when I gain some confidence I will eventually make them higher step by step. Greetings Jazznow Edited September 22, 2012 by Jazznow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cdthayer Report post Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) I've been doing some repair/alteration work on harness and straps. ... need to determine an hourly rate that incentives repair vs replacement, but don't want to work for free....What do you guy's charge?? ... blue collar wage averages from $10/hr plus...I was thinking $15/hr plus material with a minimum. Hi Reuben, Since you’re talking about repairs and alterations instead of new fabrication, you need an hourly rate for that type of activity. With some of the things customers drag in to the shop for repairs, we seldom actually know how long the repair or alteration is going to take until it’s done. Those jobs need to be quoted by whatever time is required, instead of a finished amount. Sure, we’ll have an idea, and will quote them an estimate, but repairs/alterations are a whole different world from fabricating. You’ll be surprised by what they bring to you to repair and at how “well” (or not) that they want you to “repair” it. They won’t always want the best fix. An example could be repairing a harness or strap just to get by for a couple of days until a new one comes in to replace it, then they’ll discard the old one. Fix it as good as the customer wants it done. We went through a process to determine our hourly rate. When my wife and I opened our little shop 6 years ago, I looked up information on the median income of the area and found it to be $10/hr. So, that was our first labor rate for about a year to get going, but “median income” usually reflects wages for a warm body only, and no buildings, tools, or equipment. We own our building, all of our equipment, and our inventory, so no pressure to meet a loan payment. That helps. We don’t have any employees either. Each year, we’ve increased our labor rate a little. We’ve added additional/better equipment along the way, and we’re becoming more experienced every year. We’re at $18/hr now, or 30 cents per minute, plus materials. No extra charge for thread. We have our rate posted on our website, so everyone pays the same rate. Now, I have done some repairs for friends in the past and just for the heck of it, let them pay me what they thought it was worth to them. I quit doing that. I started feeling guilty for being overpaid by some and shocked at how worthless my work was to others. I’m not complaining. It taught me something that I needed to know about my friends. To help implement our prorated hourly rate, I bought some little battery-powered kitchen timers and have them at our various work stations. When we start a repair or alteration that is not on our flat rate list, we start and stop the timer as we do the job. It works real well, when we remember to push the buttons. We tried having a $3 minimum for the first 2 or 3 years, but dropped it. It didn’t allow for those little jobs that took less than 10 minutes to have them back on their way. Simply charging the regular timed rate makes the customer feel good and is good advertising. Charging a minimum just made it seem like we were trying to gouge them at times, (as in “Three dollars!!! And it only took you 3 minutes?”). When the customer gets to thinking that since you charge $1/minute, then that must mean that your rate is $60/hour, which in this area at least, is too much. No telling how much money our $3 minimum cost us by scaring away potential return customers. CD in Oklahoma Edited September 23, 2012 by cdthayer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Northmount Report post Posted September 23, 2012 I think a $5 or $10 minimum charge is quite reasonable. $2 or $3 hardly makes it worthwhile to do the bookkeeping, look after sales tax, file income tax and all those pesky time consuming things that goes with being in business. People these days think nothing of dropping $10 on things of absolutely no lasting value. The work and repairs we do have much longer term value than a bag of popcorn or a soft drink at the movies. If you aren't going to charge for reasonable value, then skip the charge and just do it for free. No bookkeeping, no taxes ... Put a tip jar on the counter, just like a box for pennies that people don't want and leave for someone else to make up those few cents difference to round out a nickel or dime. If you don't want the tips, give it to a charity end of each week. Let them do the accounting. Over 20 years ago in a computer business, we decided that the only way to price the small bits and pieces was to start at $5. It didn't make sense to mark up 30% on a $1.39 item when you look at all the time and costs that go into ordering, picking up, stocking, etc. It sure made pricing a lot more simple and no one ever complained. Only high volume sales can make money on $1 items. And we are not high volume sellers. Think about it. Remember our work has lasting value. Keep that in your mind when working and pricing your time, labor, talents, skills, etc. CTG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cdthayer Report post Posted September 28, 2012 Just wondering if reuben cogburn came up with a labor rate for repair work yet.... And while on the labor rate subject, I thought I’d ask if any repair work shops on here charged a premium (extra fee) for “rush jobs”? CD in Oklahoma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
