Finished Or Unfinished Burnisher?

[Dutch253]

I'm looking to get started on some sheath making and am looking at some tools online. I'm about to order a burnisher I've seen online, its the one thats made of wood and shaped like a spindle (best description I could come up with!) they have them unfinished, just raw wood shaped in the tool shape and stained (much smoother). Since I'll be using it to rub edges and shape leather does it make a difference what one I order?

Thanks!

[KAYAK45]

Yes. The burnisher should be made out of Cocobolo wood.. It is one of the most dense woods around, and has natural oils for burnishing. If..it is "finished" those natural oils are of no value. Actually, to burnish you will have any combination of things on the leather, like saddle soap and oils, maybe some stain. Any wood finish would be of NO USE.

That said, check the on-line burnisher for its chuck end, if for a drill press or dremel. Wood ends deteriorate quickly! For automation work they need a steel shaft or at least a metal ferrule.

If its for hand use disregard last statement, but still make sure the type of wood.

Good Luck!

Kevin

[Glendon]

Cocobolo isn't strictly necessary, but burnishers should absolutely be made out of the denser hardwoods. I haven't seen it first hand, but it seems that softwoods would deform quickly because of the friction involved in burnishing. If they are offering finishes, it makes me wonder if you found a woodworker who hasn't actually used what he is making.

[Dutch253]

Hmmm. I'm looking at a German website that has them (I'm living in Germany) and the ones I'm seeing are made from maple and cherry. They have them apparently treated with oil or untreated.

[Spinner]

The assumption of a burnisher maker using a finish doesn't know leatherworking is absolutely incorrect, sorry guys. I'm proof positive of that fact.

I turned & sold more than 1000 burnishers for dremels and drill presses and I'd like to think I know a thing or two about both woodturning and leatherworking. Every burnisher I sold had a shellac based friction polish on it. I extensively tested both with and without various finishes and there are a few hundred folks on this forum alone that will attest to the success of my burnishers (now being made by Ed "The Bearman" using the same process).

In regards to burnishing, it's not the natural oils in cocobolo that matter it's the density of the wood and the tightness of the wood grain that matter. Why cocobolo versus hard maple or walnut or cherry? While the domestics are all hard woods from a surface pressure standpoint, the distance between the fall and spring wood bands in the grain is significantly wider. Spring wood is much softer than the fall wood grain bands and breaks down easier and faster so having narrow spring wood bands like in cocobolo is preferrable. this is even more prevalent in woods like Ash and poplar where the spring wood is extremely soft and easily damaged. The main benefit of the natural oils in cocobolo is the heat resistance & anti-warping of the wood. On the other end of the spectrum would be wood like Ebony, which has a similar tight grain pattern and narrow spring wood bands but due to the lack of natural moisturizing oils it has a tendency to check and crack under any decent amount of friction heat making it unsuitable.

Now, that doesn't mean that an unfinished cocobolo burnisher won't work as well. As long as it's sanded to at least 400 grit (I preferred 600) to eliminate any tearout or tool marks it should work fine. Fact of the matter is, as the burnisher ages and is used, the burnishing compound and leather residue ends up filling the pores and burnishing the wood surface so that the natural oils have no contact with the leather soon anyway. For those that don't know, wood burnishes just like leather does and burnishing a wood surface post sanding and pre-finishing is a common practice in woodturning. Using a natural product like wood shavings, leather, clean newsprint, etc. all burnish the wood surface to a fine finish in a matter of minutes on a lathe and completely seals the pores. By adding a friction based finish to the burnisher the maker is simply speeding up the process of "priming" the surface of the wood. Otherwise, the end user will notice it takes a few uses longer for the burnisher to perform optimally while your projects are loading & sealing the wood pores with compound & residue and then burnishing them smooth.

Hope that clears things up for the OP.

Cheers,

Chris

Edited September 12, 2012 by Spinner

[Spinner]

Clarification on the finishes part - please note that I used a shellac based friction polish. An oil or wax based finish would work equally well but should the maker be using a hardening finish like lacquer then I would defer and say they don't have much experience with their product. The lacquer or other similar hardening finishes would simply get burned through or soften and gum up making the burnisher unusable but to say using ANY finish is wrong is simply incorrect.

[hidepounder]

I'd like to "second" everything Chris said. I've had the good fortune to try out a number of burnishers made of various materials from a number of makers, and I definitely prefer those that Chris made (and now Ed LaBarre). I was unaware of what finish Chris used, but I knew they were finished and they sure work well. Unfinished wood works, but I don't think it works as well. I have a full set of unfinished burnishers and discovered they scorched pretty easily. In all fairness, I also don't think the wood was tight grained and hard either. But I was able to get a good finish by slowing everything down which lengthened the process significantlly, by the way.

Burnishing is the result of abraission and heat combined. We often use slicking agents to help control both the amount of heat and abraission and to provide a more durable finished surface. But burnishing can be accomplished very nicely with steel, glass or nylon burnishers. I do my burnishing with canvas and then do a final finish with wood. I happen to think that Chris' (Ed's) wood burnishers are the best on the market and still my personal favorites. For what ever it's worth, that's my opinion, anyway!

[Dutch253]

Sounds like I better find myself a cocobolo burnisher rather than settling for one of the maple or cherry one I've found so far. Thanks for all the info guys.

[Spinner]

Sounds like I better find myself a cocobolo burnisher rather than settling for one of the maple or cherry one I've found so far. Thanks for all the info guys.

http://www.leatherburnishers.com Ed & Beary will get ya fixed right up.

[Dutch253]

http://www.leatherburnishers.com Ed & Beary will get ya fixed right up.

The problem is I'm in Germany so I'm trying to find a German website so I don't have to pay astronomical shipping charges.

[Spinner]

The problem is I'm in Germany so I'm trying to find a German website so I don't have to pay astronomical shipping charges.

Actually if you're not in a hurry you should be able to ask them to send them in a thick padded envelope via USPS First Class International Mail. It takes about 10-14 days to arrive but the cost is only about $4-$6 USD for the shipping.

Otherwise, USPS Priority Mail is 4-7 days and costs $16.95. UPS and FedEx are significantly higher. Hope that helps. If all that fails, I may still know a German woodturner or two that could help. I definitely know a few Brits that could. Whether or not they have a suitable piece of wood is another question though as Cocobolo comes from So. America so it may be costly over there negating the shipping cost difference.

[Dutch253]

Actually if you're not in a hurry you should be able to ask them to send them in a thick padded envelope via USPS First Class International Mail. It takes about 10-14 days to arrive but the cost is only about $4-$6 USD for the shipping.

Otherwise, USPS Priority Mail is 4-7 days and costs $16.95. UPS and FedEx are significantly higher. Hope that helps. If all that fails, I may still know a German woodturner or two that could help. I definitely know a few Brits that could. Whether or not they have a suitable piece of wood is another question though as Cocobolo comes from So. America so it may be costly over there negating the shipping cost difference.

Oh, that's not too bad ill give the usps international shipping a try. Thanks again!

[Tree Reaper]

My unfinished softwood cedar burnisher has a coating of trag and wax from burnishing so I can't see any kind of a finish making much of a difference .

[Spinner]

My unfinished softwood cedar burnisher has a coating of trag and wax from burnishing so I can't see any kind of a finish making much of a difference .

From my first post, I explained where it makes a difference:

By adding a friction based finish to the burnisher the maker is simply speeding up the process of "priming" the surface of the wood. Otherwise, the end user will notice it takes a few uses longer for the burnisher to perform optimally while your projects are loading & sealing the wood pores with compound & residue and then burnishing them smooth.

and from Bobby's post:

Unfinished wood works, but I don't think it works as well. I have a full set of unfinished burnishers and discovered they scorched pretty easily.

It's not to say unfinished won't work at all, they just don't work as efficiently out of the box. And while softwoods will work, they simply don't last as long as cocobolo.

[Tree Reaper]

Well my point is, if the last layer is wax and trag it doesn't much matter what's under it.

I'm not sure about the Spring and Fall wood, as growth rings are in annual layers so the Spring and Fall are essentially the same ring, at least in North America.

South America I don't think experience any seasonal change.

Growth rings are better defined by how much moisture the tree receives.

I have an abundance of cedar, I can cut them with a cheap hole saw, stack them on a bolt and shape them where they meet with a rasp and sandpaper.

If they only last for ten years I won't mind replacing them.

[Spinner]

Well my point is, if the last layer is wax and trag it doesn't much matter what's under it.

I'm not sure about the Spring and Fall wood, as growth rings are in annual layers so the Spring and Fall are essentially the same ring, at least in North America.

South America I don't think experience any seasonal change.

Growth rings are better defined by how much moisture the tree receives.

I have an abundance of cedar, I can cut them with a cheap hole saw, stack them on a bolt and shape them where they meet with a rasp and sandpaper.

If they only last for ten years I won't mind replacing them.

I totally get what you're saying Reaper, and for your particular situation of relating to a used burnisher a finish wouldn't make a difference. But the OP is looking at brand new ones and that burnished polished film you have takes a bit to build up nicely, doesn't just happen on first use. A friction finish bridges the performance gap between brand new & broken in is what I'm trying to put across.

"Spring wood" may be woodturning specific jargon, I'm not sure. It's a phrase used to describe sap wood whereas "fall wood" is the harder barrier lines that make up the grain patterns. Sorry for any confusion on the part. More power to you if you can make your own and are happy with them. I'll never begrudge someone saving money on something they can make themselves...hell, that's how I started making burnishers years ago to begin with.

[BearMan]

Hi Dutch,, Spinner (Chris) & Bob are right on the money. Beary & I have been so busy trying to get ready for the Nashville show in Oct. this is the first time I saw this post. If you haven't heard from Beary ( leatherburnishers.com ) yet, you will tonight. The shipping to Germany is just like what Chris said. If you have the time, International Flat rate is very affordable. Thanks everybody,, Ed

[Tree Reaper]

There's no doubt that the turned cocobolo's are top of the line and I wish I had room for a turning lathe here.

When a tree goes dormant for the winter and stops feeding there isn't much of a line between any two annual rings and from what I know about rain forests where there aren't different seasons the growth ring separations are next to invisible in most species.

Slower growing seasons would put the rings closer together which would translate to dense wood.

Different species also have different growth rates regardless of what the season produces.

[Trox]

Hi Ed,

can you make me a cocobolo burnisher for my burnisher motor. It has a 1/2 inch shaft and runs at 1300 rpm. The burnisher head must not be 100 % in center, some small vibrations does not matter to me.

In advance thanks

Trox

Hi Dutch,, Spinner (Chris) & Bob are right on the money. Beary & I have been so busy trying to get ready for the Nashville show in Oct. this is the first time I saw this post. If you haven't heard from Beary ( leatherburnishers.com ) yet, you will tonight. The shipping to Germany is just like what Chris said. If you have the time, International Flat rate is very affordable. Thanks everybody,, Ed

[BearMan]

Hi Trox,

Yes we can do that for you. My son Beary is actually the one making the burnishers. His email is: leatherburnishers@yahoo.com Do you know how long it needs to be? Just measure the distance between the washers. Also, which grooves do you need in it? Just contact Beary at his email, & I'm sure he can make something for you.

[Trox]

Thank you, I will contact him.

Thanks

Trox

Hi Trox,

Yes we can do that for you. My son Beary is actually the one making the burnishers. His email is: leatherburnishers@yahoo.com Do you know how long it needs to be? Just measure the distance between the washers. Also, which grooves do you need in it? Just contact Beary at his email, & I'm sure he can make something for you.

[daveottawa]

I received my 3 burnishers from Beary today and they are beautiful! FYI for anyone else in Canada, they came in the regular mail, no holdup at customs, and no HST taxes to pay. They only spent 6 days in the mail system. Woo-hoo.