Samalan Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Bill congrats you seem like a nice guy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
immiketoo Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Well said, Mike. I've belonged to a number of different forums with generally unpleasant and irritable folks. Thankfully, Leatherworker.net is a cut above with good, caring people who are generous with their advice and talents. You are absolutely right. I belong to a few horse forums....enough said:) I have belonged to motorcycle, car, watch and gun forums, and without fail, it usually devolves into "Mine's bigger/better than yours" at some point and the anonymity of the internet makes people feel that they are invincible. Internet muscles. Especially where material things are concerned. As a car/bike/racing enthusiast, usually the richer the person, the better the thing. Here, money doesn't mean JACK. You can't buy talent. Or a personality. Here, everyone is willing to help out or offer some encouragement, and seems genuinely concerned about improving their own skill and that of the craft in general. One of the things I have learned here is that people who have are willing to help those that don't, whether they lack experience, tools etc or confidence. When I first started working with leather, somebody told me that leather would teach me patience, and painful as that is for me, its working. More importantly, the LW community has taught me that there is still compassion in people and that this is a place where people can express themselves without fear of senseless ridicule. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluesman1951 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Bill, all leather workers are cool in some regard, and I haven't had anyone here be rude or mean in the few months I've been here. The group of leather work as a whole has been far more interesting, intelligent and friendly than any other forum I have ever belonged to. I love it here and the sheer number of talented people is overwhelming. I am glad you are enjoying ,I am as well. There are so many wonderful folks here . The sheer volume of work is amazing . Making comments forces you to think not only of the work you are seeing but of the person and the place it was made . We dont all have the same tools or the same skills . There are those from all over the world and just going to the store and buying something is not a option sometimes . When we see a hand sewed seam a little off, consider this before commenting, maybe glasses are needed that cant be afforded, perhaps the tool needed for a straight line is currenty out of reach money wise , maybe it was clamped to the bench or sewed between the knees instead of using a stitching pony ,we never know how some one accomplished something till we look closer . I am amazed at some solutions I see here and wonder how they were arrived at .I have stood behind a table filled with my work and faced the public many times hoping they would purchase my work . Each time I made a mistake I learned and tried to eliminate it from my life. Now after years of mistakes its down to pretty efficent ,refined and simple ,no more traveling thru the weeds . LOL I am at peace with myself and my craft my picture collection has more ideas saved than I have life left to create ,so I wish to pick and choose my projects . I am in total awe of some of the talent here. What I have learned in my years is the laws of the universe WORK !!! There is truth in the saying : Give and you shall recive . Be grateful for the smallest things ,Treat others as you wish to be treated , Your life will pass before your eyes again live it well . One should never be far from a copy of OG Mandinos "Greastest Salesman " Imagination is the key to much of life vanilla ice cream is fine but imagination allows for cherries ,nuts whip cream point is why be ordinary ? This site is growing and good people are joining every day , the chance for sharing is becoming epic . I have a very good feeling about the direction its taking . The holidays are coming and there will be stories beyond imagination shortly . Thanks for reading this and rember it has not been a perfect day until you have helped someone who has no chance of ever paying you back . Gravity works you dont have to see it to believe likewise being nice works . May all your memories be good ones . Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluesman1951 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Another great post Bill, followed by more superbly worded replies...I think you are some kind of poet (or maybe people don't talk honestly anymore) with your words and I hope that in 300 years or so people will be quoting you just like they did with some hairy bloke called Shakespeare (and I still don't know what he was talking about!) Congrats ambassador Bill PS Can i have your autograph Gladly !!! Drop me a line any time ,love to share some music and pics with you . Nothing like Zydeco music to make you raise a glass . Thanks for the words . Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikesmith648 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 I have Bill's number and I can't wait to meet him............good words my friend!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shtoink Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Well said, Mike. I've belonged to a number of different forums with generally unpleasant and irritable folks. Thankfully, Leatherworker.net is a cut above with good, caring people who are generous with their advice and talents. I cannot agree more. I had joined a traditional archery forum and was pretty active for about 5 months. It had gotten to the point that nearly every thread became a rant about politics, religion, race, or all of the above plus more. I couldn't take the negative atmosphere and just dropped it from one of my regular haunts. It's a real shame too, since there was a good deal of useful information, but it just wasn't worth wading through all of the venomous hatred that ultimately ended up everywhere. I do remember Mike (TwinOaks) mentioning about restricting the updates from a facebook something-or-other since it was itself was in violation the board rules. (I don't deal with facebook or any similar social networking, so I don't know the specifics.) I'm glad for that, because it seems nothing can turn a thread sour faster than a flame war over differing opinions. I'm certain that more than a few friendships would be destroyed in the process if it were allowed to happen, too. I must point out that I don't exactly feel comfortable with commenting or critiquing the work of someone more skilled than myself. The only exception to this I can think of is maybe asking how a particular aspect was achieved or a description of your complete awe if it is a particularly spectacular outcome. Maybe I am alone on this, maybe I'm not. To me, it just seems like respecting the pecking order, I guess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EquusCustomLeathers Report post Posted November 2, 2012 I cannot agree more. I had joined a traditional archery forum and was pretty active for about 5 months. It had gotten to the point that nearly every thread became a rant about politics, religion, race, or all of the above plus more. I couldn't take the negative atmosphere and just dropped it from one of my regular haunts. It's a real shame too, since there was a good deal of useful information, but it just wasn't worth wading through all of the venomous hatred that ultimately ended up everywhere. I do remember Mike (TwinOaks) mentioning about restricting the updates from a facebook something-or-other since it was itself was in violation the board rules. (I don't deal with facebook or any similar social networking, so I don't know the specifics.) I'm glad for that, because it seems nothing can turn a thread sour faster than a flame war over differing opinions. I'm certain that more than a few friendships would be destroyed in the process if it were allowed to happen, too. I must point out that I don't exactly feel comfortable with commenting or critiquing the work of someone more skilled than myself. The only exception to this I can think of is maybe asking how a particular aspect was achieved or a description of your complete awe if it is a particularly spectacular outcome. Maybe I am alone on this, maybe I'm not. To me, it just seems like respecting the pecking order, I guess. Well, I have to say that I'm not the kind of person to "join" groups, conversations, etc...usually. I am more of an observer than a participant. However, since Bill has posted this topic, I have found myself commenting quite a bit more than I normally would. Gotta tell ya, even though I am a newbie, and felt the same way you do regarding the pecking order, I feel much more a part of the community now. Great feeling that I didn't know I was missing out on! Thank you for the kick in butt, Bill! LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
immiketoo Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Look. I've felt like that too, especially as shtoink puts it, when I post the thread dies. Weird. But, I just keep asking questions and offering opinions when I can. And unlike you Equus, I am more of a participant that wants everyone else to play too, so I include everyone. The only place the pecking order comes into play is when someone is clearly not qualified on a subject and acts like they are. I like to defer to those with greater knowledge in those cases, but other than that, we are all here for the same reasons Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluesman1951 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 Well, I have to say that I'm not the kind of person to "join" groups, conversations, etc...usually. I am more of an observer than a participant. However, since Bill has posted this topic, I have found myself commenting quite a bit more than I normally would. Gotta tell ya, even though I am a newbie, and felt the same way you do regarding the pecking order, I feel much more a part of the community now. Great feeling that I didn't know I was missing out on! Thank you for the kick in butt, Bill! LOL Please tell me why a comment has to be technical . Do you think the average customer has a clue what they are looking at in regards to tooled leather ? I would guess not . Some questions to consider first do you like it ? pretty simple there . would you like to own it ? simple as well . are you impressed ? Pretty simple there too. Consider that as the hours stack up in a project each stroke has a greater risk than the one before it . It takes but one wrong stroke to put a hicky on the whole project . I respect that moment by moment progress as a project nears completion just the shear effort of it . Next ,did you enjoy seeing the post ? Why not just say thank you for the time and effort it took to post it. No one I feel needs to be a expert to comment except maybe about technical stuff. The whole point is to make every one feel welcome and comfortable regardless of skill ,todays student will be tomorrows teacher thats guranteeded . Its just that darn clock that needs to tick for awhile . being compassionate is just the right way to be . When you comment on a straight cut consider that may have been made by a person in a wheel chair or on a rickety table because thats the best they have to work on . How would you feel then ? Never assume anything by looking at one piece of work for all we know it was made by someone's young son or daughter . I can recall each time I got a piece of knowlege that moved my leather skills to a new level felt pretty darn good . If I can do that for someone why not? Never rush to judgement be kind and honest as you give so you will recive . Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluesman1951 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 I cannot agree more. I had joined a traditional archery forum and was pretty active for about 5 months. It had gotten to the point that nearly every thread became a rant about politics, religion, race, or all of the above plus more. I couldn't take the negative atmosphere and just dropped it from one of my regular haunts. It's a real shame too, since there was a good deal of useful information, but it just wasn't worth wading through all of the venomous hatred that ultimately ended up everywhere. I do remember Mike (TwinOaks) mentioning about restricting the updates from a facebook something-or-other since it was itself was in violation the board rules. (I don't deal with facebook or any similar social networking, so I don't know the specifics.) I'm glad for that, because it seems nothing can turn a thread sour faster than a flame war over differing opinions. I'm certain that more than a few friendships would be destroyed in the process if it were allowed to happen, too. I must point out that I don't exactly feel comfortable with commenting or critiquing the work of someone more skilled than myself. The only exception to this I can think of is maybe asking how a particular aspect was achieved or a description of your complete awe if it is a particularly spectacular outcome. Maybe I am alone on this, maybe I'm not. To me, it just seems like respecting the pecking order, I guess. Perhaps sometimes a critique is not the way to go . Consider a question instead " How did you do that ?" might be in order . Every one who posted something deserves a thank you thats just good manners and we learned that in the third grade . I have never heard of or saw a time when Thank You was out of order . There is wisdom in the old saying : Its better to remain silent and be thought ignorant ,than to open one's mouth and confirm it . LOL Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beaverslayer Report post Posted November 3, 2012 Bill, Glad to have you as our newest Ambassador. I myself have been away from this site for some time now, as a normal job had taken over my life. Now that I have my shop back up and running, I hope to be able to contribute such as I did in the past. I do have to let you know though, that the last words of wisdom you posted, is contrary to what you have been trying to say here all along. People may read that and say...."Hmmmm, I guess it is better if I remain silent" Ken (The Beav) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluesman1951 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 Bill, Glad to have you as our newest Ambassador. I myself have been away from this site for some time now, as a normal job had taken over my life. Now that I have my shop back up and running, I hope to be able to contribute such as I did in the past. I do have to let you know though, that the last words of wisdom you posted, is contrary to what you have been trying to say here all along. People may read that and say...."Hmmmm, I guess it is better if I remain silent" Ken (The Beav) Boy I hope not ! Perhaps my brain just slipped a gear .Nothing negative was intended . I am not recommending silence at all . I have a huge curosity about who made what and the story behind each project . Thanks for pointing this out to me and I will chastise myself for that random thought . Welcome back ! All my best Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LNLeather Report post Posted November 3, 2012 (edited) Heheh I didn't take it that way at all - although, communication is a funny thing. I read that to say "sometimes a critique is not the way to go - Consider a question instead " How did you do that ?" I think part of the point was that a comment doesn't always need to be a critique IMHO - just some of my thoughts It is not just what you say but how you say it... If you don't exactly feel comfortable or qualified with critiquing, then don't. But you can still show support with a simple comment if you want to... ***If you post under Critique my Work! or if a critique is actually asked for elsewhere, then I think a critique is expected. But: *Not every post is asking for a critique - or needs one. *Some folks shouldn't critique if they cant do it with kindness and consideration... *Some folks have tough skin and don't mind. ***You never know when you are really going to hurt someone's feelings. Sometimes just an "atta boy" is all I need -Just a simple reply can be enough to be encouraging. It seems like you could find something positive to comment on - especially if you have downloaded their pictures ***I noticed a long time ago that some posts with pictures will show that lots of folks viewed the post and hundreds downloaded the pictures but no one took the time to say - Thanks for sharing your work... Congratulations Bill, on becoming an Ambassador! This is a really Great topic and you have brought up some Really Good thoughts and comments. Edited November 3, 2012 by LNLeather Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluesman1951 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 Heheh I didn't take it that way at all - although, communication is a funny thing. I read that to say "sometimes a critique is not the way to go - Consider a question instead " How did you do that ?" I think part of the point was that a comment doesn't always need to be a critique IMHO - just some of my thoughts It is not just what you say but how you say it... If you don't exactly feel comfortable or qualified with critiquing, then don't. But you can still show support with a simple comment if you want to... ***If you post under Critique my Work! or if a critique is actually asked for elsewhere, then I think a critique is expected. But: *Not every post is asking for a critique - or needs one. *Some folks shouldn't critique if they cant do it with kindness and consideration... *Some folks have tough skin and don't mind. ***You never know when you are really going to hurt someone's feelings. Sometimes just an "atta boy" is all I need -Just a simple reply can be enough to be encouraging. It seems like you could find something positive to comment on - especially if you have downloaded their pictures ***I noticed a long time ago that some posts with pictures will show that lots of folks viewed the post and hundreds downloaded the pictures but no one took the time to say - Thanks for sharing your work... Congratulations Bill, on becoming an Ambassador! This is a really Great topic and you have brought up some Really Good thoughts and comments. Thanks for your words . Being a manufacture /wholesaler I have gone to literaly thousands of stores selling and gotten all manner of responses. From: "The buyers not here " when I know they are lying . "No I dont have time " "maybe not till spring " when its six months away . Just all kinds of garbage from shop keepers when they dont want to look at your stuff . I know this selling battle well and I promised no matter what I would always make time to look at work and say thank you for letting me look . Just to acknowledge some one and say "I am glad you are here ". This kind of selling is not for the thin skined it gets to you after awhile . Profit margins at the wholesale level are not huge so it becomes a volume thing and you end up making huge amounts of things to get by . I always said I would quit and walk away when I got jaded or disagreeable ,helping folks advoid the pitfalls has helped a lot keeping the balance . I enjoyed greatly reading your words and would like to thank you for the time it took to compose them . I am throughly in love with a song by Keb Mo called "Better Man" it can be found on You Tube the words in the song could be lived by every day . I hope you have time to listen if you like it share it far and wide . Make the world a better place . Thanks again . Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
