Need Suggestions For Pancake Holster Retention

[Matt Alsaker]

I put this pancake holster together for a Springfield XD Sub-Compact 3". I need to fix the pucker that developed at the bottom near where the front sight post would be and need to make the reinforcing piece bigger so it comes over the top of the slide some. I need suggestions on how to fix a retention issue. The retention is great, while the holster is not on a belt. Once I put the holster on, the pressure from the belt curving the holster around my hip tightens the leather and makes it tough to draw the firearm. Will moving the slots for the belt loops further away from the firearm help reduce this or should I move on of the stitch lines off the firearm a little? I'm hesitant to move the stitch line since the retention is so nice when the holster is not being worn, but darn thing needs to be wearable and functional.

[Shooter McGavin]

I "pre-curve" my holsters somewhat, but they are still very tight. Thats part of the break in process IMO.

[renegadelizard]

Hey Matt, i dont think it would hurt to move your belt slots out a 1/4 inch or so....these guns are rather thick, and just like revolvers need some more room...when i do these chubby guns, i usually space them at about 3/4 to 7/8 inch from the stitch line..another thing i do is to mold the holster with a belt blank in place..this sets the retension as it is worn and not flat...let me know how it works out...the pucker can be mitigated by inserting a dowel or something similar for a sight channel...it usually pulls that extra out...

[TwinOaks]

Spray the inside of the holster with a LIGHT misting of water, put it on a belt, insert the gun (it's an XD, a little moisture won't hurt it), and wear it around for most of a day.

A tight holster can be stretched, but a loose holster is an accident waiting to happen. When I wet mold holsters, I use the gun or a model of it and force-stretch the leather to fit. Most of them will 'click' into place when done. If your holster is that snug NOW, it should be just fine once it's broken in. GOOD JOB!

[chiefjason]

I was in a thread on another board recently where they were saying the the "belt retention" is made worse if the holster is molded as much on the back as the front. Basically, the belt routing around the gun mold is what tightens it up when worn. Wearing it will certainly break it in. Trying to have less mold on the back side will prevent it some. Not the easiest thing to do. I'm tinkering with a holster right now that should be flat on the back side. I want to see how that compares.

And don't move the stitch lines. Belt slots maybe, stitch lines no.

[SooperJake]

There's another holster making board on the net?

[TwinOaks]

I was in a thread on another board recently where they were saying the the "belt retention" is made worse if the holster is molded as much on the back as the front. Basically, the belt routing around the gun mold is what tightens it up when worn.

If I'm understanding this correctly....the idea is that the tension from the belt going around the gun is what holds the gun in place????

Whoever is giving that advice needs psychatric help.

The HOLSTER should hold the weapon in place.

A proper holster will:

Hold the weapon in place to prevent loss, and still provide a reasonably release from the holster;

Keep the weapon in the same position every time (because muscle memory from training will have you grabbing at where the gun is supposed to be);

Provide adequate room for the user to attain a full firing grip before they ever unholster the weapon;

Serve a dual role of protecting the user's body parts from the gun as well as protect the gun from damage (sweat, bumps, scrapes, etc.)

Usually, all this can be done and be comfortable.

Looking good is an added advantage, but the holster should be able to do those things on it's own. The wearer of the holster should NOT rely on running a belt around the weapon to provide secure carry.

_____

If the intent of the quoted lines is that the belt is what tightens up a holster so that it WILL perform correctly.....

See above,

A belt simply holds the holster in place. It should NEVER play a critical role in the retention/function abilities of a holster

Once upon a time, I had some differing ideas about gun leather....I was fortunate enough to have several people who make holsters for a living set me on the right road.

[sgb]

Move the front belt loop slot further out.

[chiefjason]

There's another holster making board on the net?

Not exactly. Just some makers hanging out in the holster section of another board. See below. There are a few familiar faces over there.

If I'm understanding this correctly....the idea is that the tension from the belt going around the gun is what holds the gun in place????

Not quite. The molding, stitching, and all the other details hold the gun. Same as always. But the way the belt routes around the mold of the holster can INCREASE the retention of the holster. Sometimes to the point that it's hard to use. Moving the belt slots out is likely solving the same issue as molding less on the back. Relieving tension from the belt. And I have seen that in one of my first beltslides that I purchased. My Tagua slide had much more retention when worn. Think about the outward pressure that a good gun belt could but on the back of a holster. A little extra is probably not too bad. But too much and you get the problem the OP is having. A molded back could be the cause of it, as the maker was pointing out on the other board. It can also cause the mouth to shrink or possibly collapse making re holstering more difficult. Basically, he was making the case for flat backs on beltslides. Pretty interesting concept and one that intrigues me a bit. I've got one started if I can just find time to work on it.

If you want to check out the thread I'll link it below. And I'll fore warn you. You can argue with him if you want, but you will be arguing with one of the best pros out there. Even if he is out of the business now.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-holsters-carry-options/150569-we-can-learn-even-newbies.html

[TwinOaks]

I do agree that effectively 'folding' or 'wrapping' the holster around the user's waist will change it's properties....I apparently misunderstood the intent of your post. I thought you were saying that the holster (type) was built so that it NEEDS to be tightened up by the belt.... Can you build to accommodate the curvature of the wearer? Most certainly...it's one of the aspects of fitting a holster to a person instead of making a generic 'one size fits all' pattern.

One of my friends is a local LEO and is on their version of SWAT. In FULL tactical gear and weaponry he scales out at 205lbs. He's one of those wiry guys that eats a 16oz steak and loses weight in the process....and he can hide behind a 2x4. Putting a holster on him requires either a single point attachment or widely spaced belt loops because he has a 26" waist (and incidentally my favorite belt customer because it takes NO time to make one for him). Any narrow width holster gets pulled too severely....the standard Tagua wraps so far around him that it's almost like folding the 'wings' up to make a box. Even kydex paddle holsters 'flare' out away from his profile.

On the other side of that coin is my friend who runs the gun store - He's pushing 380lbs, and obviously has a much larger radius at his hip. Holsters with closer slots work well on him.

So I think we're in agreement after all, and that the guy posting the info on the other board is correct.

I've made some flat back holsters, and in using them I've found that once the holster breaks in, there really isn't any difference because of the placement of the molding. Depending on how it's designed, the stress of supporting the holster/gun will be either mostly on the back panel, pretty equally shared by the front and back, or mostly on the front panel. If you build to support the holster, then once it's broken in, you'd have to be intentionally over tightening the belt to make it deform. My support of this line of thinking is the design of holsters with exotic inlays. For those, the front panel is mostly flat because it's more difficult to get detail molding when you have extra layers. Retention is achieved through molding on the back panel.

Also, two layers of leather molded in a tight curve (like at the top of the gun) will resist collapsing pretty well. For people like Katsass, who build with doubled leather -grain out on both-, the holster is pretty dang stiff. 'Mouth bands' on IWB holsters is simply an abbreviated second layer to provide that support.

ETA: If I screwed any of that up in my description, I'll fix it later. I'm still trying to figure out why I'm up and awake at 02:15.