Adler 167?

[studioaudrey]

Dear Tor,

Oh, really good to know, I think I have been using too small needles in general, also for the canvas.

I've been using the TKT 20 the whole time because I like the look of the thick thread.

I was just about to order some needles right now.

The guy at the industrial machine place suggested 110 needles and TKT 30 thread when I said I was busy with canvas.

But I forgot to mention that I wax the canvas, which also makes it quite thick and I have indeed been having a hard time finishing the seams of the bags with twill tape (because there are some spots with 5 or 6 layers of canvas).

Enclosed are some photos of bags that I made with the 110 needles:

Best,

Audrey

[studioaudrey]

oh, and I also just found this needle & thread size chart now: http://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

[Trox]

Dear Tor,

Oh, really good to know, I think I have been using too small needles in general, also for the canvas.

I've been using the TKT 20 the whole time because I like the look of the thick thread.

I was just about to order some needles right now.

The guy at the industrial machine place suggested 110 needles and TKT 30 thread when I said I was busy with canvas.

But I forgot to mention that I wax the canvas, which also makes it quite thick and I have indeed been having a hard time finishing the seams of the bags with twill tape (because there are some spots with 5 or 6 layers of canvas).

Enclosed are some photos of bags that I made with the 110 needles:

Best,

Audrey

Hello Audrey,

I use 120 for TKT 40 and 130 for tkt 25 and 30. When you sew (thin) textile material wrong needle would not be a problem, because the material has natural holes in it ( it would be a problem with thicker material). When you sew thick leather/material the needle have to make room for both the threads, using to small needles you will have stitch errors. Such as the material will stick to the needle, and the needle will break, bend and hit the sewing hook. etc.

Thats why you get problems when you sewed two layers of leather. Use the thread needle comparison chart or the thread needle sliding test in the pin topic about needle sizing. Yes you have used the wrong sizes all a long, because the machine is that powerful it did the job even so. Right size needle is very important to get a good result when you sew thick material.

Good luck to you

Audrey.

Have a nice day.

Tor

[frasermade]

...

For use on leather you can change to smooth feet `s and lower the feed dog in level with the needle plate (If it is not already adjusted like this) to avoid markings on backside of the leatherwork.

...

Hi all

How do you lower the feed dog on a 167, or indeed remove the issue I'm currently having - I'm getting a very pronounced circle impression/mark where the feed dog needle hole (for want of a better description) is landing on the back of my leather.

I have sanded and polished my walking feet and the difference is phenomenal - no more marks from the feet on the leather - but this small circular mark around each stitch on the underside of the leather is a problem for making cases and the like, where leather is on both top and bottom.

Many thanks in advance

Gordon

[DrmCa]

Fraser,

Your feed dog does not look right to my uneducated eyes.

Did anyone try to increase the size of needle hole to use the larger needles?

I never had issues with bottom leather marking and my feed dog in Pfaff 335 looks way smaller. Only size 22 needle with size 90 thread would pass freely.

Tried size 24 needle with 415 thread and it would not pass through, which is correct.

[frasermade]

Fraser,

Your feed dog does not look right to my uneducated eyes.

Did anyone try to increase the size of needle hole to use the larger needles?

I never had issues with bottom leather marking and my feed dog in Pfaff 335 looks way smaller. Only size 22 needle with size 90 thread would pass freely.

Tried size 24 needle with 415 thread and it would not pass through, which is correct.

Hi there

Thanks for the reply

I've just got this machine so it's however it was. I'm finding a million things that need attention - the needle plate (throat plate?) for example - the screws that hold it on - 1 doesn't fit so well and the other just isn't the right size of bolt. So I'm ordering some new ones, and I guess I may as well get a new feed dog whilst I'm at it. It does look like it has been "enlarged" somewhat.

Although looking at the college-sewing parts, the genuine feed dog does have quite a large hole in it as stock.

[Trox]

The hight of the feed dog is adjustable underneath the bed of your machine. But first measure the hight with a feeler gauge, caliper etc. It should be on the top of its path when the needle meets it. It should not raise more than a one millimeter over the throat plate. Buts the best set up for Wegtan leather would be in the level with the throat plate (on its highest point). However, like it's mention in the above post; your feed dog have a very large hole (it's worn out by needle hits).

There will always be round push out marks from the needle, the material the needle push out will have to go somewhere.

As soon as you have completed a seam, wet the leather with a damp sponge and hammer the back side of the leather with a smooth faced leather hammer. This will smooth out the markings and lock your stitches (close the leather around the thread) But do it at once before the markings fixate.

Always hold the both thread ends tight until you have locked your stitches, needle down in the material and reverse one stitch before you sew forwards again (with 4 to 5 stitches before you release them). The loops underneath in your picture is because you have not locked your starting stitches.

Try to ease off the foot pressure as much as possible, but not as much that your material are not hold still when the stitch are made. To little foot pressure and you will have skipped stitches. The needle have to be past the bottom dead center (BDC) and on its way up again (and the hook have catches the top thread) before you lift the pressure foot to turn the material. Otherwise you will have a skipped stich, loose loop on the bottom etc.

At the end of your seam, reverse (or turn direction, "poor man's reverse") and sew at least 5 stitches backward in the same stitch holes to lock your seam. Wet (damp) your leather underneath and hammer your seam.

This is a little beginners crash course in machine sewing leather, and something we all have experienced. You will manage it with some practice, this and your thread tension settings are all a matter of some practice.

I think your backside will look much better with a new feed dog, there aren't many teeth marks. Nevertheless, a new feed dog will have much sharper teeth. You could try to find a smooth one. If there are to much teeth markings, then you lower it like described before. You will find the information in the service manual on how to proceed. Or ask me when/if that time comes.

If you get an proper Ho Hsing needle position motor and install it right. The needle will always stop down a little bit past the BDC, with the thread loop formed. Then you will never have any issue with loose stitches in corners and such. Your sewing foot set looks good, if you need different ones. Left, right, welting and special foot set. You could try http://www.kwokhing.com/da/

You can use pressure foot from DA 267, DA 269, DA 268. Adler: 67, 69, 68, 168 and 169. They are all the same

The DA 467, 767, 367, 669 and 867 (9) uses a different type foot.

Good luck with your new machine.

Tor

[DrmCa]

Is it just me, or the hole in the new feed dog looks almost 2x times smaller in proportion to the dog width?

Although looking at the college-sewing parts, the genuine feed dog does have quite a large hole in it as stock.

[Trox]

No, it's not only you, it's worn out by needle hits. It will also be a poor working needle guide, and allow he needle to bend away from the hook. Might be causing skipped stitches too, hitting something the needle should not hit (hook and bobbin case in worst case senario). A Nm 160 needle would be the biggest usable needle in this machine. Some will try a 180, but it's not advisable. It is a upholstery class machine and no heavy leather stitcher, the thread size is limited to the 15 (tex 180) top and a size smaller in the bobbin. I have a DA 267-373 and I never use it on any thing heavier, rarely heavier that tkt 20 (tex 135). That's because I don't have too I guess (I have heavier machines), but also for the best result.

Tor

[frasermade]

The hight of the feed dog is adjustable underneath the bed of your machine. But first measure the hight with a feeler gauge, caliper etc. It should be on the top of its path when the needle meets it. It should not raise more than a one millimeter over the throat plate. Buts the best set up for Wegtan leather would be in the level with the throat plate (on its highest point). However, like it's mention in the above post; your feed dog have a very large hole (it's worn out by needle hits).

There will always be round push out marks from the needle, the material the needle push out will have to go somewhere.

As soon as you have completed a seam, wet the leather with a damp sponge and hammer the back side of the leather with a smooth faced leather hammer. This will smooth out the markings and lock your stitches (close the leather around the thread) But do it at once before the markings fixate.

Always hold the both thread ends tight until you have locked your stitches, needle down in the material and reverse one stitch before you sew forwards again (with 4 to 5 stitches before you release them). The loops underneath in your picture is because you have not locked your starting stitches.

Try to ease off the foot pressure as much as possible, but not as much that your material are not hold still when the stitch are made. To little foot pressure and you will have skipped stitches. The needle have to be past the bottom dead center (BDC) and on its way up again (and the hook have catches the top thread) before you lift the pressure foot to turn the material. Otherwise you will have a skipped stich, loose loop on the bottom etc.

At the end of your seam, reverse (or turn direction, "poor man's reverse") and sew at least 5 stitches backward in the same stitch holes to lock your seam. Wet (damp) your leather underneath and hammer your seam.

This is a little beginners crash course in machine sewing leather, and something we all have experienced. You will manage it with some practice, this and your thread tension settings are all a matter of some practice.

I think your backside will look much better with a new feed dog, there aren't many teeth marks. Nevertheless, a new feed dog will have much sharper teeth. You could try to find a smooth one. If there are to much teeth markings, then you lower it like described before. You will find the information in the service manual on how to proceed. Or ask me when/if that time comes.

If you get an proper Ho Hsing needle position motor and install it right. The needle will always stop down a little bit past the BDC, with the thread loop formed. Then you will never have any issue with loose stitches in corners and such. Your sewing foot set looks good, if you need different ones. Left, right, welting and special foot set. You could try http://www.kwokhing.com/da/

You can use pressure foot from DA 267, DA 269, DA 268. Adler: 67, 69, 68, 168 and 169. They are all the same

The DA 467, 767, 367, 669 and 867 (9) uses a different type foot.

Good luck with your new machine.

Tor

Hey Tor

Many many thanks for your valuable tips. I'm really new to not just the industrial machine world, but the machine world in general, so I'm always open to tips!

I've still got a way to go before the Adler 167 is running perfectly, including aligning the reverse holes with the forward holes, swapping out the feed dog for the new one I just ordered, and generally getting the machine up to speed.

I plumped for the Jack JK-563A-1 motor from College-Sewing and I have to say I do very much like it. I would like it to go just that little bit slower but I think that's just my inexperience than a necessity. Silent running which is nicer than the clutch, and of course easier to handle! I'm sure once I am comfortable with using it, feeling for the reverse switch and getting all my timings together it'll be just fine for me!

You also wrote:

It is a upholstery class machine and no heavy leather stitcher, the thread size is limited to the 15 (tex 180) top and a size smaller in the bobbin.

Is there a rule or a system to choosing how much smaller the thread you use in the bobbin, or is it just one down i.e. if you're using 15 in the needle, you use 20 in the bobbin?

Thanks again for all your help,

Best

Gordon