Would Appreciate Feedback On My Pancake Holster Pattern

[JollyJ]

I would really appreciate feedback on the holster patterns I have attached. They are for a Bersa Thunder 380.

Many years ago I had a leather business in Montana and made a lot of custom "cowboy" six shooter hogleg holsters. I never had reason to make a holster for an automatic weapon - or even a revolver - because out there it was open carry and well, it was the west. Also, the holsters were custom fit to each customer's gun. I can't even tell you what type of guns they were because my patterns just have the customer name on them.

Now, after years of working a regular job to raise my family, I am getting back to doing leatherwork. I started with jewelry and bracelets, added messenger bags, purses and knife sheaths.

Recently, a friend asked me to make a holster for his new gun. He agreed to be my guinea pig since it had been so long since I had made a holster and I had never made a concealed carry holster for an automatic weapon.

So, here are the patterns I have drawn up. He is on the hefty side and thinks he would prefer no cant. I would also appreciate thoughts on that.

Finally, any thoughts on the sweat shield/hammer strap would be appreciated.

Pattern with no cant

Pattern with 7.5 degree cant

Pattern with 15 degree cant

[TwinOaks]

I won't comment on the cant of the design because that is totally subjective- your customer wants what he thinks he wants.

However, on the holster itself.....regardless of which pattern you use, you have some areas you need to address. First and foremost is the stitch line. It is waaay to far from the gun. Over time, the leather will stretch a bit and the gun will be loose in the holster. On the top and bottom pics, you really need to change where the holster meets the trigger guard. As drawn, both will be in the way of a good grip. They're also likely to be in the way of the mag release.

Thumbstrap is optional, but again, it's gonna depend on what the customer wants. If you're going to use one, it's easiest to just incorporate the snap in the "sweat shield".

[JollyJ]

Thanks so much for your feedback! Now a few more questions...

I'm asking about the cant because this is my friend's first concealed carry - first holster for that matter - so he really isn't sure either. I'm not able to help because the holsters I did in Montana were all straight draw because that's what my customers wanted for their six shooters. It would be nice to know the ideas behind the variations.

Next, I'm all about getting the stitching line right so I really appreciate the feedback there! When I drew it, I measured the top of the slide which was almost 7/8" then I gave a little allowance for the leather I'm using - 8-9 oz - and measured 5/8" from the outline of the gun. Is that too much leeway for that thickness of leather? I could drop it back to 1/2" maybe?

Thanks also for the comments on the grip. I think the grip I have drawn would work for my hand but I think you are right - it may be too small for his. And I'm confused by the mag release. I've heard it shouldn't be covered by the holster but then I see holsters that definitely cover it. The mag release on the gun is very stiff and I'm thinking the thick leather I'm using probably won't easily compress it but again, never had to worry about that type of thing before so I'm definitely in learning mode.

He does want a thumbstrap and I'm still figuring out how I want to do that - hence the incomplete drawing of that portion of the holster - so thanks for the suggestion of incorporating it into the sweat shield. That was my inclination but just wasn't sure what to do there yet.

Again, thanks for the feedback and if you have anything further to share, it will definitely be appreciated. Same for comments from anyone else!

Jeannie

[mlapaglia]

You place the gun slide against the stitch line on the right, as viewed, and measure 5/8 from the trigger guard side for your spacing. Right now you have twice as much as you need. Hope that makes sense. Dont forget to tape a pencil or dowel to the slide top so you can mold the sight tunnel. This way the sight does not snag as you draw the gun.

Michael

[JollyJ]

Thanks but, nope, I'm lost!

For my stitching lines, I thought I was following particle's suggestion. "Regarding your stitch line, you want to offset it at least 1/2 the thickness of your firearm, plus maybe another 1/16" to 1/8". This helps allow for the thickness of the leather, as well as a molded sight channel."

So the gun's thickness is 7/8". Half that would be 7/16" and I added 1/8" for the thickness of the leather (8-9 oz). So roughly 5/8" or actually 9/16" from the firearm on either side of the gun, since it is a pancake holster.

Help! What am I missing about this?

Thanks so much for commenting!

Oh, and love that dowel idea for the sights!!

[TwinOaks]

What you are missing is the other measurement...you're using the measurement from only one side of the gun. The trigger guard is much thinner (actual measurement on this one at the gun store is 3/8ths inch)....so you need half of the 3/8ths + leather for the line at the trigger guard side of the gun...in this case you'll be about 5/16ths" offset at the trigger guard. However, the 'general rule' is only that..you'll likely find that after molding, you'd be able to move the stitch line in to almost the profile of the gun on the left side and be fine. And that's just my opinion of course, as I don't know how you'll be sewing it. I'd suggest making the base holster as you have it drawn and then mold down to the gun and see what the actual offset is for the leather you're using.

[JollyJ]

Excellent point! I certainly didn't think of variation of the thickness from the slide side to the trigger side.

Okay, so that makes sense to me. I'll be handstitching so no stitching foot has to be considered in marking the stitching line. Thanks so much!!

Anything else I'm missing?

[electrathon]

It looks cool to tip the belt slots, but this does change the length of the slots. Over time it can contribute to looseness. Straighten them out.

Tell the guy he wants at least some cant. Especially if he is overweight, he will have a very tough time reaching back and pulling straight up.

[JollyJ]

Thanks so much! I wondered if leaving it straight might cause issues for him drawing the weapon since it's not hanging down from the belt as hoglegs do.

I read in my research that the slanted belt slots would help pull the barrel toward the body but others said that it didn't make a big enough difference to worry about. Good to know they can get loose over time that way. I'll straighten them.

I'm really appreciating all the good pointers!

[mlapaglia]

Thanks but, nope, I'm lost!

For my stitching lines, I thought I was following particle's suggestion. "Regarding your stitch line, you want to offset it at least 1/2 the thickness of your firearm, plus maybe another 1/16" to 1/8". This helps allow for the thickness of the leather, as well as a molded sight channel."

So the gun's thickness is 7/8". Half that would be 7/16" and I added 1/8" for the thickness of the leather (8-9 oz). So roughly 5/8" or actually 9/16" from the firearm on either side of the gun, since it is a pancake holster.

Help! What am I missing about this?

Thanks so much for commenting!

Oh, and love that dowel idea for the sights!!

Forget everything I said except the part about the dowel. I'm not sure what I was trying to say. I was asleep I think. Sorry

Michael

[SteelcityK9Cop]

As someone who has been carrying for 18 years... I always look for at least the 15 degree cant. The cant actually makes the draw easier...as well as making it more comfortable to wear. Be it my Glock 27 or my 1911 It rides the best with some cant to it.

[JollyJ]

No worries and still thank you, Michael (mlapaglia)! It was probably my references to six shooters because your comments were dead on for them.

Thanks SteelcityK9Cop! That's the type of information I was looking for. Like I said, he's new to this, and I want to do my best for him. He's a fireman and EMT in our city and grew up with my oldest daughter. He's a good kid!

Jeannie

[camano ridge]

Jolly, have your customer take his unloaded firearm and put it between his belt and pants then have him draw the firearm at different angles, he will soon determine on his own that he will get a better draw with a cant.

[DoubleBarP]

JollyJ. I'm an armature at this holster building stuff so factor that in when listening to what I have to add. On the other hand, I have been carrying a handgun professionally for over 3 decades. As a firearm instructor, I teach my students to achieve a “shooting” grip on the gun while it is still in the holster. Based on your drawing I suggest you adjust your pattern to allow for that…

In addition, a “cant” of 10-15 degrees will help with concealing the firearm and gaining a shooting grip while still in the holster. Individual body mechanics and where the holster is worn on the body come into play in this area.

If you are looking for a good primer ask Dwight if he would be so kind to provide a copy of his student handout that he provides to his students when he is teaching holster classes. It is an excellent primer. You could also look at Adams leather works. He has some videos of how he builds holsters. Another good resource.

Some of the best advice my mentor gave me when I started building holsters was this.. “I can’t give you a step by step formula that will lead to success. Building holsters is one of those things that you need to do with your hands”. I can give you a how to list but you need to do it to understand it”.

It does get easier over time. Although I am not sure, how much better I have gotten… I keep trying though… Good luck in your quest to build a better holster. Be sure to post pics of your product so we can see how you have progressed…

DBP

[JollyJ]

Thanks all! And I have a reply from a personal message I sent particle too!

I will discuss your comments about the cant with my "guinea pig", Pat. I know he will appreciate the information from long time carriers and I'm betting he will then want to start with the 15 degree cant.

I will post pictures once I make the holster so you can check out my finished work and give any additional pointers.

Thanks again!

Jeannie

[Eagle Crest]

It's a good design. For what it's worth and I'm sure someone will disagree with me, I wait to stitch the trigger guard side. I stitch my slide side then I put the gun in the holster. I press the holster a bit with my fingers to get the leather close to the bottom profile of the gun. I then trace the profile. Remove the gun. Over stitch the line. Punch my holes and stitch. I have gotten good results with this and am always able to get the trigger side stitch line really close. As said before when completed you want the holster to be tight. I almost want to think it should be a bit tough to draw. When the leather moistens and stretches it can get to be too lose and can become dangerous. But that's just my two cents. I'm new to the holster business but I have carried a gun for over ten years.

Also in respect to the strap for the thumbreak I initially had the mindset that the strap was there to hold the gun down and several of my straps were way too tight against the gun and would become distorted. The retention in the mold is what holds the gun in place. The strap is just extra insurance. A well molded holster should never even need a strap in my opinion. It's just the persons preference.

[JollyJ]

Thanks EagleCrest. I made a mock up with scrap leather and did find that I had to make another line of stitching closer to the trigger. Then I had my friend take the mock up and use it for awhile to see what he thought. I suggested to him that I might need to stitch it even closer. He used it, agreed that I needed to make the stitching a bit tighter but otherwise loved it! Also, he did want the strap for just the extra safety.