New Holsters From This Weekend

[Imapeopleperson]

Just posting some new holsters, and getting used to using my Champion stitcher. A couple are for the Govt 45 and a few extra that don't have a designation yet. Got to fix that.

[renegadelizard]

that is some incredibly thick leather youre working with there...any specific reason?

[c2369zulu]

Based on the stitching, It appears he has lined a lot of the holsters. I wish I had time to do that many at once. Looking good.

[Imapeopleperson]

The leather is 7-8 oz, i don't think its way to thick for holsters, It gives a good protection on the firearms, and the new/old Champion sewing machine makes fast work of stitching, I used to do them all by hand, but i never would have stitched all the way around by hand, it would have taken a long time, but ya'll know that. The stitcher works great and i usually get the patterns cut out one day, dye them, and then take them out to get sewed up the day after there good and dry, Getting the leather formed before stitching helps a great deal. Thank you for the comments.

[dickf]

that is some incredibly thick leather youre working with there...any specific reason?

I agree with the lizard - that's not 8 oz leather, more like 12. Way too heavy for your application.

[RWP]

I agree with the lizard - that's not 8 oz leather, more like 12. Way too heavy for your application.

Apparently it's working just fine for the application if he's working on 5 holsters at once?

[dickf]

Apparently it's working just fine for the application if he's working on 5 holsters at once?

Surely you're not suggesting that making several items at once dictates proper construction?

Those holsters aren't tightly molded to the gun (nor were they designed to fit a specific weapon). The leather is too heavy. If they were western or period holsters, I'd say it would matter less. Other than quantity, what else in those photos makes you think it's the appropriate weight?

[St8LineGunsmith]

if it were a period accurate western holster the leather would actually be around 6-7 oz but I like to make all my holsters out of 8-9 oz leather

and pancake and paddle holsters are 8-9 oz leather

the holsters in the pics certainly look like they were made from 12 oz.

heavier than I would use for those types of holsters however the OP might like using thicker leather for whatever reason.

I would not go as far as to say the leather is too heavy for the application if it was for personal use and the thick stuff can be molded just as easy as the lighter weight leather just need to be soaked a few minutes longer however you don't see holsters on the market made from leather as thick as these.

most holsters and belts I make are cut from the same thickness leather which is 8-9 oz

I saddle stitch and lace my holsters and I sure would not want to stitch up leather that thick by hand.

awfully difficult pushing an awl through 12 oz leather when it gets that thick it is time to bring out the drill press and a round awl blade to make the stitching holes.

even when installing a welt i sometimes push my stitching holes through with a press

Edited February 20, 2013 by St8LineGunsmith

[Imapeopleperson]

I just can not figure how you all with the measurement eyesight can tell the leather is way to thick. I'm telling you all that it is 7-8 oz, now whatever you used to gauge the material, i would truly like to know so i can look at a picture and think i know all the aspects of whether the leather is way too heavy or inappropriately weight for the types of holsters i build, I think they work out just fine and if i were building your design on a holster i could consider your critique on the weight of leather i am using, but since i am not building your holsters i think that they are fine. Anyway thanks for the leather thickness class.

if it were a period accurate western holster the leather would actually be around 6-7 oz but I like to make all my holsters out of 8-9 oz leather

and pancake and paddle holsters are 8-9 oz leather

the holsters in the pics certainly look like they were made from 12 oz.

heavier than I would use for those types of holsters however the OP might like using thicker leather for whatever reason.

I would not go as far as to say the leather is too heavy for the application if it was for personal use and the thick stuff can be molded just as easy as the lighter weight leather just need to be soaked a few minutes longer however you don't see holsters on the market made from leather as thick as these.

most holsters and belts I make are cut from the same thickness leather which is 8-9 oz

I saddle stitch and lace my holsters and I sure would not want to stitch up leather that thick by hand.

awfully difficult pushing an awl through 12 oz leather when it gets that thick it is time to bring out the drill press and a round awl blade to make the stitching holes.

even when installing a welt i sometimes push my stitching holes through with a press

Agreed.

[St8LineGunsmith]

It is sometimes difficult to judge by a picture but the leather does look to be thicker than 8-9 oz just judging by the pic.

12 oz leather measures aproximately 6 Mil or 1/4" IIRC and 8-9 oz is in the ballpark of 5/32" to 7/32" just under 3/16"

3/16" to 9/32" would be 10-11 oz leather IIRC

[RWP]

Surely you're not suggesting that making several items at once dictates proper construction?

Those holsters aren't tightly molded to the gun (nor were they designed to fit a specific weapon). The leather is too heavy. If they were western or period holsters, I'd say it would matter less. Other than quantity, what else in those photos makes you think it's the appropriate weight?

What you and someone else considers "proper construction" is up for grabs that's the beauty of the craft. No 2 methods are the same. What works for one craftsman might not for another, but just because you personally think the leather is too thick or too thin doesn't mean it's improper construction. As the OP said, this is working for him and his machine set up. Thick or thin. Good work I like them.

[TwinOaks]

"Proper construction" is not up for grabs. There IS a correct way to make holsters, and more than a few incorrect ways. Specific elements can vary, but the basics Do Not Change. That's what some of the people that make holsters for a living have been nice enough to share with the members here.

An improperly formed holster will not hold the weapon correctly, possibly resulting in damage to the finish, the weapon falling out and being damaged or lost, or depending on the weapon...a negligent discharge. None of those are acceptable risks to a customer, nor should they be acceptable to the maker.

The leather may originally be 7-8oz, but from the coloring, it looks like it is doubled (flesh to flesh), much the way Katsass describes. The major difference is that he's bonding thinner leather to start with.

And before anyone jumps on the "Who the heck are to say......" wagon....look at the profile of the person you're about to insult. You might just find that they are a professional in the field with many years of experience to give them all the credibility they'd need.

I know.....a long while ago I jumped on the stump and beat my chest at a pro holster maker.....then years later I ate crow and thanked him for trying to tell me what it took me two years to learn and another year to get right.

You'll probably find that hardly anyone here is making comments/critiques that aren't intended to help the OP.

[camano ridge]

Just to throw my two cents in, after you have made hundreds or even thousands of projects as many experienced people on this site have done you can look at a project and get a sense of the thickness of the leather used in a project and come pretty close to telling the thickness of the leather. If the OP is saying it is 8oz he may have measured it andis correct on the other hand I have been sold leather and told the thickness of the leather only to measure and find out it was incorect. It does look like ihas been doubled and does look thick. If the OP did laminate two thicknesses of leather together he is corect it is 8 oz leather however the end result is thicker.

[dickf]

now whatever you used to gauge the material, i would truly like to know so i can look at a picture and think i know all the aspects of whether the leather is way too heavy or inappropriately weight for the types of holsters i build

It's called experience.

Anyway thanks for the leather thickness class.

You're welcome.

I'm not attacking you or anyone else here. I personally feel that if you lighten up on the weight, you would have:

1. An easier time cutting, molding, stitching, etc.

2. A tighter fitting holster which in turn would be a safer, more effective holster.

3. A more enjoyable experience because of the added flexibility/workability of the material.

You're right - you're not building my patterns. The ONLY reason I even said anything was because when I first started making holsters, I bought all of my leather from a local Tandy store. I was told the first piece I bought was 6/7oz. It was. I was told another piece I bought was the same weight - it was 9/10oz. Subsequent purchases yielded the exact same experiences with differing weights. I know this now. I didn't know this then because I didn't have anything to fall back on to judge them. I still have scrap pieces that I made IWB holsters from that I now know to be 10oz leather! Far too heavy and thick for that type of holster.

Measure it with a caliber. If it's 0.125" (+/- 0.007 depending on the split) or around there, I'll retract everything I said about the thickness. I know they're not lined; that's clear from your photos. Remember, 8oz == 0.125"

My estimate from the image looks to be about 0.1875", which is 12oz.

Good luck

I'm in the shop anyway, so here's a photo for reference. Most of my IWB's are built from 7/8oz leather.

P.S. The tension is off on your machine. Ask me how I know...

[Sixer]

"Proper construction" is not up for grabs. There IS a correct way to make holsters, and more than a few incorrect ways. Specific elements can vary, but the basics Do Not Change. That's what some of the people that make holsters for a living have been nice enough to share with the members here.

An improperly formed holster will not hold the weapon correctly, possibly resulting in damage to the finish, the weapon falling out and being damaged or lost, or depending on the weapon...a negligent discharge. None of those are acceptable risks to a customer, nor should they be acceptable to the maker.

THIS +1

[St8LineGunsmith]

Here is a chart that may be benefical to the discussion at hand

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=45085

anyway I usually don't gauge the leather with an instrument i just eyeball it however I have been messing around with the stuff off and on for the past 38 years from building saddles to coin purses so I have a pretty good idea of what weight should be used with any particular type of project.

I totally agree with everything Dickf and twin oaks has said which is sage advice for anyone looking to profit from their work.

there is a general rule of thumb that should be followed when selecting the right weight and type of leather for any particular project

just like you would not want to make holsters from a piece of 12 oz saddle skirting you would not want to make billfolds from thick leather either.

Imapeopleperson I dont think anyone was trying to rake you over the coals or say your work looks like crap I just think they were trying to give constructive criticism so don't take it to heart the holsters look good for the style you were going for

back years ago wet forming was seldom done on holsters however with the evolution of pancake and paddle holsters wet forming the holster to the gun has become common practice the thing about wet forming it is easy and can be done even if the finish has been applied to the outside of the holster as long as the flesh side remains unfinished or untreated with water repellent coatings however wet forming works best with an untreated or unfinished holster because it will take water and wil form much better.

anytime wet forming is being applied it is very important that the leather is sealed afterwards so it will retain the shape of the pistol it was made for otherwise if the holster gets wet it can loose its form of the weapon.

that is the whole deal with wet forming is that it securely holds the firearm firmly in the holster so it will not accidentally come out

[Imapeopleperson]

Well Dickf, I measured the holsters and you are correct. The measurement makes it 12 oz, but i still get good molding on the holsters when they are molded out. Just saying. To each his own. I understand what everyone is saying about the leather by thinking it is too thick, but i think all are not correct. The holsters come out fine when complete, but who am i to say since i am not a 30-40 year veteran on leather work . I guess Everyone can and does make things different. I can take constructive criticism and appreciate helpful statements not people trying to act like.... anyway I know that wet forming is done before sealing, The holsters were made and I applied neats foot oil. The wet forming takes place later. I appreciate the chart on leather thickness str8line that will help out the next time i post a 12oz leather holster or a 12 oz belt there will be no mistake on the size of the leather. So ask me how i know my tension is off, I do know this , I have been working to get it corrected, I just received the manual for it and have been waiting on it to come in to correct it. Anyway I am done here for now and appreciate all the advise, good or bad. I hope i can repay the favor to some of you when i can.

[dickf]

I guess Everyone can and does make things different.

You're absolutely right. And as pointed out, that is the beauty of the craft.

I can take constructive criticism and appreciate helpful statements not people trying to act like....

I'm still not sure of the reason behind your defensive attitude. Nobody was slamming you or your work. Every comment given to you was intended to be helpful in nature. You will, without debate, have an easier time cutting, molding, and stitching your leather if you lighten its' weight. You will not sacrifice quality or its current retention abilities.

So ask me how i know my tension is off, I do know this , I have been working to get it corrected, I just received the manual for it and have been waiting on it to come in to correct it. Anyway I am done here for now and appreciate all the advise, good or bad. I hope i can repay the favor to some of you when i can.

'Ask me how I know' was meant to imply that I had my own tensioning demons and fought many nights against my machine to get the tension and timing right. Lots of wasted time and materials in the shop. Because you were turning out finished holsters, I didn't think you knew it was off.

Good luck to you.

PS I'm not a 30-40 year veteran. I wouldn't even consider myself a veteran. But, something was said to me on this forum by a veteran holstermaker, though, and it's always stuck with me. I carry the idea around with me on this board when I look at stuff people build, and I think it's good philosophy for any holstermaker, new or old.

...we're making gear for something that can cause great bodily harm or death. Far different from making a checkbook cover. If people would realize, and more aptly accept, the fact that there's a wrong way and a right way to make a holster, it would be so much easier.

I've never forgotten this (or deleted it from my PM's), and I try to remember it with every finished build and every piece of advice I give.

Just my (last) 2¢.

Chris

[renegadelizard]

You're absolutely right. And as pointed out, that is the beauty of the craft.

I'm still not sure of the reason behind your defensive attitude. Nobody was slamming you or your work. Every comment given to you was intended to be helpful in nature. You will, without debate, have an easier time cutting, molding, and stitching your leather if you lighten its' weight. You will not sacrifice quality or its current retention abilities.

'Ask me how I know' was meant to imply that I had my own tensioning demons and fought many nights against my machine to get the tension and timing right. Lots of wasted time and materials in the shop. Because you were turning out finished holsters, I didn't think you knew it was off.

Good luck to you.

PS I'm not a 30-40 year veteran. I wouldn't even consider myself a veteran. But, something was said to me on this forum by a veteran holstermaker, though, and it's always stuck with me. I carry the idea around with me on this board when I look at stuff people build, and I think it's good philosophy for any holstermaker, new or old.

I've never forgotten this (or deleted it from my PM's), and I try to remember it with every finished build and every piece of advice I give.

Just my (last) 2¢.

Chris

Bravo Chris, I was struggling with a way to say the same thing, but it never came out quite as smooth as you put it...

[Imapeopleperson]

I guess i just got bent out of shape, but some of ther op comments make out like they are talking to a Dumb Adoubles, When the fact is, the holsters mentioned were not complete and do wet form to the firearms quite nicley when boning has been completed,any way thanks a great deal.