Making Wallets To Sell

[aguilerag]

Not sure this is the correct spot to post this, so I apologize if it is not.

As you all know, I am still new to this wonderful thing called Leather working. I have learned a lot from reading all your posts and from the tips and suggestions I received on my other posts. I have a new question now. I am sure it won't be the last one I ever ask.

I have had quite a few people ask me to make them Wallets like my first, from scratch wallet I completed last week. There are 4 who want a tooled wallet and the 2 others who want just dyed with their initial. My question is, would it be good practice for me to make them and sell them? They all know I havent been doing it long and I told them I would need half of the money up front and they agreed. I think it would be a good way to learn but afraid to put out a product that is not to my quality.

I have improved as happens when you practice a lot, but want to be better of course. My overall goal is to be able to make some things to sell just like I do with Airbrushing, screenprinting and drawings.

Included some pics of finished wallet. I got the edges looking decent but I have been practicing on scrap leather lately and its a lot better looking. This was my first try for "from scratch wallet". I fixed the patterns in spots that needed it and have different interior patterns as well.

[Cyberthrasher]

My question is, would it be good practice for me to make them and sell them? They all know I havent been doing it long and I told them I would need half of the money up front and they agreed. I think it would be a good way to learn but afraid to put out a product that is not to my quality.

Quick answer is yes! Especially since they know you're learning still. There's nothing to be ashamed with in those pictures. If you think you're not good enough to sell now because you're still learning, then where do you draw the line? We should all constantly be learning new things and improving what we do. So, if the fact that you're still learning stuff is reason not to sell, then you'll never sell a thing. Plus, I find that I refine my techniques and get even more OCD when I know that there's customer orders on the line

[aguilerag]

That is kinda what I thought. I am in the same mindset about what you just said. I completely agree that when you are doing something for someone who is paying you, that you do become more OCD for sure.

I remember thinking the same way when I first started screenprinting and doing Tattoos. I think I am always nervous to make and sell something the first couple times.

[JLSleather]

Head over to Etsy and search 'tooled leather wallet'. You won't feel at all concious about selling yours! Sure, there's some room for improvement, but alreeady nicer than a LOT of whats out there for sale!

[Cyberthrasher]

Head over to Etsy and search 'tooled leather wallet'. You won't feel at all concious about selling yours! Sure, there's some room for improvement, but alreeady nicer than a LOT of whats out there for sale!

EXACTLY what I do whenever I want to start on a new product. It gets me a good overview of what type of stuff is out there for handmade items and gives me an idea of the average cost for stuff that's at "my level".

[Cyberthrasher]

I think I am always nervous to make and sell something the first couple times.

You just have to have faith in yourself and remember that they came to you knowing what you do. I always look at my stuff and say "man, I hope this is what they're expecting to see" until I realize that they came to me after seeing pictures of my work and admiring it - it's EXACTLY what they were expecting to see because it's in the style they've already enjoyed. From there, you just have to keep in mind that if it's something they have an option on, it's easy to make sure of their wishes before hand.

One I'm doing right now, he requested "the color like the 'kevin' strap", which wasn't even the strap he was looking at, so that was almost a disaster. By mocking things up and verifying every step of the way, we ended up getting on the same page and found out which strap he really wanted to duplicate the color from. Then he came back and said "I want this part burgundy" - google burgundy and tell me how vague of a color that is!!! So, I start light and leave myself room to adjust to the shade of burgundy that he wants. If you make sure you're working WITH your customers instead of just doing a blanket order, then there shouldn't ever be any surprises for them, which means nothing to be nervous about

[electrathon]

I see some room to improve but overall your work looks good. Sell your first items at a reasonable price and concentrate of cleaning op the details. Look through Etsy and see some of the poop there attempting to be sold for top dollar. Your work is already better than a lot of it there.

Aaron

[aguilerag]

Great advice. I went and looked at Etsy and am shocked at some of the prices for some of the work.

I came up with a plan. I am going to make one more wallet to see how long it takes me so i can have an approximate time frame down and to clean up some details. After I am done with that, I will start to take the orders and work on them. I think I came up with a reasonable rate too as not one of the people said it was to much or to small amount.

Your right cyber. They are ordering what they want from what they saw. Good point and helped me to feel more confident about it.

Thanks everyone.

[billymac814]

Your wallet definitely looks better than a lot of what's on Etsy. I use etsy as a self esteem booster sometimes. I also like that you're upfront with people about being new to it. Every crappy piece on etsy says that is really high quality using the "finest" leather and so on and its clearly a Tandy kit made of the crappiest leather possible.

The only thing I'd suggest you do different is get all of the money upfront, especially for ones with names or initials or otherwise personalized or hard to sell ones. Half down isn't bad on a normal one that you can sell to someone else but if and when you start getting a lot of orders it turns into too much extra work invoicing twice. I only do half down on special occasions and usually only on items above 300.00.

Good luck, you'll be busy with orders soon I would guess.

[lightningad]

Definitely go for it!

I was in the same place as you a few months back. I was asked to make a passport wallet for someone based on the one i had made for myself. The thing to remember is that they have already seen your work - which is why they asked you to make them one. They know your current skill level and are still happy to commission a product from you.

Thats a great endorsement. Don't panic - its a good thing.

You will definitely approach the commissions with trepidation and more care, and in the process you will learn and improve...and thats as it should be.

My Skull Journal was a prototype, but within seconds of it being seen, someone commissioned one for her boyfriends birthday. I'll finish that this weekend, and because i already made one and knew all the areas i made mistakes, i prevented those by creating a sequential checklist rather than my usual way of just winging it!. The result is a big improvement. I can't wait to present the finished item.

I also photograph every piece before i send them out. Its a good record of how i improve, and its useful to have a gallery you can show potential customers.

[JLSleather]

Wow, when I suggested looking at search results on Etsy, I certainly didn't mean to spend your day brow-beating the next guy. The whole point was, your stuff certainly is that quality (and better than many). My mistake - I should have simply said go on and sell your product and left it at that.

What I do NOT suggest, is basing your price on the time it took. One guy makes an item in an hour, next guy takes 3 hours. If the quality is the same, I for one would not pay more for the slower guy - thus rewarding him / her for going slower. A $50 wallet is a $50 wallet, regardless of who made it or how long it took.

Seriously, enjoy the crafting. Make some money at it. Improve when / where you can. Just keep in mind, the guy who needs to run someone else down to feel better about what he does (instead of improving it) has issues way beyond the burnished edges.

[Dwight]

The absolute first and most important foundation point for beginning ANY business: you already have, . . . the head orientation that your customer must be first.

Companies or individuals who do not get their heads oriented that way, . . . fold up, die out, go bankrupt, . . . or worse, produce an inferior product that gets someone hurt or sick, . . . and legal action nails their business' coffin shut.

Being up front with your customer, . . . AND being willing to adjust as required, . . . will go a super long way toward making you successful.

And like others have said, . . . the pictures look good, . . . but you need to develop your product as you go along, . . . the Edsel is proof you can go too far, . . . the Yugo is proof that some junk is sold, . . . but personally I like what I saw.

One final point, . . . accept limitations. For instance, . . . I will not build a "small of the back" holster, . . . nor to I sell horizontal shoulder holsters. To me they pose a serious liability that I am all to happy to allow someone else to assume.

Again, . . . you have a good start, . . . good attitude, . . . that is most important.

As an aside, . . . I also teach basic Microsoft Office applications, . . . one of the things I teach is how to use Excel to produce a one piece document that is your production order, . . . packing slip, . . . and shipping label, . . . by typing the order once, on one piece of paper, and the rest is done automatically. Anyone can learn that little computer skill, . . . but having a desire to be partners with your customer and friends with your customer base, . . . is FAR, FAR more important.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited February 15, 2013 by Dwight

[aguilerag]

I didn't think I really put anyone down from Etsy, or bashed anyone. I looked there (didn't even know what Etsy was) and saw stuff people are selling and their prices and it did make me feel not so self conscious of what I can produce. I think one of my problems is I base where I am at in leather working (beginner) to what my grandfather use to sell and I am a far ways away from that.

I figured price wise for a simple wallet like the picture I posted I would charge $40-45.

If they want one side tooled I would charge $50-55.

If they want the whole thing tooled $60-65.

Stiched or laced, finished colour, of course is up to the persons choice.

I was told that if it is a pretty intricate or super detailed design they want that I should up the charge too. Is this correct?

Not one person seemed to have a problem with that price range that wanted to order and all said they understand that since it is all hand crafted it would be a little more. Is this a good price range or should I charge less since their are still details to be fixed on the product?

Again, I appreciate all the advice that everyone has given me.

[tnawrot2]

I think your prices are too high for a stitched wallet, it might be OK for a braided wallet.

[aguilerag]

tnawrot2, so I should make different price for stitched wallet vs laced wallet? If so how much do you think? Exactly the feedback I am looking for. Thanks

[billymac814]

I don't think anyone was bashing anyone in particular on Etsy. I certainly joked about it but for one it was a joke and me or no one else talked about anyone in particular or anything in particular. There is a lot of basically crap being sold there though which was the reason it was brought up in the first place. I don't need to put anyone down to make myself feel good. I know where I stand and where the items I make stands and I spend a lot of time trying to help people get better IF they want to get better.

As far as prices go you will definitely have to figure out what time goes into it and what the end product is worth. Lacing definitely takes more time than stitching so it has to be priced accordingly. But because you're new it may take you a little longer so an hourly rate may not work in your case. Hourly rates can work on custom items but its more of a guideline than anything. It used to take me a lot longer to make holsters but over the years I've refined my process and started using dies to cut, seeing machines to stitch etc. its still the same holster so I definitely don't want to lower my price because I do them quicker now. I invested in that equipment to bring up my hourly rate.

I read once that you know you got the price right when they cringe a little bit but then reach for their wallet.

[aguilerag]

Lacing does take me a lot longer than stitching for sure. I am going to start working on my "timed" wallet tonight. I want to keep track from start to finish. I am going to tool the whole thing and lace. I figure this will give me a good baseline of approximate time.

Your right about finding the most proficient way to get a product done. Investments in tools to help cut time is a smart investment and you should not lower your cost because of it. Work smart, not hard is something I really believe in.

Thanks billy

[Dwight]

I use three factors to determine my price: what I HAVE TO HAVE in order to survive, . . . what the customer is comfortable with, . . . and the prevailing price of a similar product produced by someone else. The first two make up 90% of the decision, . . . the last one is simply a flag, denoting which way the wind is blowing.

I never allow a third party to enter that judgment, simply because they DO NOT know my situation, . . . or my customer's situation, albeit they may know prevailing similar prices.

Taking advice is good, . . . especially getting started, . . . but don't be overly influenced, especially by well meaning friends or acquaintances who really do not know what they are saying.

The final judge of your prices will be your return business. If your customers never come back, . . . something went astray. Generally price will be the culprit.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Cyberthrasher]

Lacing does take me a lot longer than stitching for sure. I am going to start working on my "timed" wallet tonight. I want to keep track from start to finish. I am going to tool the whole thing and lace. I figure this will give me a good baseline of approximate time.

Your right about finding the most proficient way to get a product done. Investments in tools to help cut time is a smart investment and you should not lower your cost because of it. Work smart, not hard is something I really believe in.

Thanks billy

Right now, I find that lacing and hand stitching take me about the same amount of time. But, I just started stitching. As of now the main cost difference for me there would end up being the difference in cost of the lace. I charge all of my tooling based on an hourly rate. So, if I do a wallet, i make one that's not tooled and just dyed, that gives me a baseline for how long it takes to make the wallet, which usually falls in line with comparative items. From there I just tack on the hourly rate for the tooling. From my point of view, if you say "all tooled wallets are $60", then someone is going to come to you with the most complicated artwork possible that will take 6 hours to get all the detail right and you'll have given up too much of your time and work for free. Keep in mind that the $20 p/h figure is a good number that I figured out based on my current skill level and the going "value" of comparable items. If I get quicker, my "hourly rate" will go up, which will keep the prices the same. On the other side, if I double my speed and keep the rate the same, I'm essentially devaluing mine and everyone else' products by 50% - not something I want to do to myself or fellow craftsman.

I mention it all the time, but for Android, I use FTS TimeSheet as a time-tracker. I used to just keep track by the clock. Now I find that my time accounting is a lot more accurate. That's the one I decided to stay with after sampling several different apps that do similar tracking.

[aguilerag]

I thought the same about all tooled wallets being the same price. I was thinking that if it is a complicated or super detailed piece, then I would discuss a higher price. I do that with my Airbrushing and my screenprinting jobs. I like the idea of your hourly base for tooling work. I think that making this second wallet will be a good idea since now I will be making it without having to worry about "how do I put this thing together". Since I want to get baselines, should I do standard tooling art work to it for time purposes?

[Cyberthrasher]

Since I want to get baselines, should I do standard tooling art work to it for time purposes?

I would if you don't have a good baseline on how long it takes you to tool various things. Keep two separate time logs. 1 for the tooling and 1 for everything else. Just do a design of "standard" complexity to see how long it really takes you. Once you get it in your head how long it takes you to do various things, you'll be able to give good quotes (or say "sorry, outside of my league").

[aguilerag]

Groovy.

I have a Stupid phone (iphone 4) and I found three different time trackers I will try to use to see which I like. One is called OfficeTime. It keeps track of time & expense and the other is called Time tracker pro and the other is HoursTracker.

[billymac814]

You'll get a feel for it once you've done it more. A lot of people will want to know how much its going to cost them before they agree to it so it may take you a while to determine how long something is going to take you ahead of time. It also varies if you have to come up with the artwork or if they provide you the artwork.

Lacing is a pretty generic term too so its hard to just say "laced" and have a set price. If you do a simple whip stitch you can do it very quickly but there are far more intricate lacings that'll eat up far more time and lace. Then there's the quality of lace.

You definitely may not make as much per hour on the first few, that's par for the course and can be chalked up to learning experiences. Once you get a system down you'll have a better feel for how long it takes and what to charge. You need to be charging enough to make it worth it for you.

[billymac814]

I have hours tracker on my iphone. It works well, I used to use it a lot when I worked a real job. It works great and would work equally well for keeping track of your time spent. You can have multiple jobs going at once too.

[Cyberthrasher]

I used to use it a lot when I worked a real job.

Don't sell yourself short on that one. You're making money and have a focus on business. I'd say what you're doing qualifies as a real job.