Factory Vs. Custom/handmade Tools

[Johanna]

Our friend Barry King generously allowed us to share his explanation of factory vs. handmade tools.

Brian asked me to talk a little about "Custom/Handmade" tools vs "Factory" tools. I can go on and on with comments and reasons, so I may add a lot after initially typing this. Here goes:

1. The biggest difference is the impression you will end up with. Most handmade tools are finished by hand. Meaning: contoured, polished and filed, by hand. The key being the filing by hand. This leaves the tool with sharp lines and ridges as opposed to a Factory tool.

Factory tool: Usually stamped out from a master die. This can be done cold or under heat. The disadvantage is the lines in the die are then rounded, not sharp. This is just one of the reasons for a poor impression.

2. Steeper angles and sharper tools are possible cutting by hand. No need for the tool base to be fat to handle the stress of the die strike(Factory). This is on the face I am talking about, not the actual tool shaft itself. A Veiner is a perfect example I am thinking of.

3. Finer detail by hand. This goes back to the hand filing. The Factory tools normally won't have fine lines because the die strike process distorts them.

4. Plating. MOST Handmade tools do nat have a plating process applied to them. If a tool has a chrome plating(Factory) it will usually start to flake after a period of time/usage. Some Handmade tools have a plating, but usually it is not a true "chrome" plating, therefore won't flake.

5. Material. Most factory tools are made from mild steel, except for the new Tandy Pro Line. Most of the Handmade tool makers are using stainless or tool steel. Wayne uses stress proof and has his reasons for that too. NO one material is perfect for all, but we all have our reasons for using what we do. I made my first tools out of nails, still use a few of them once in a while. Now, all stainless for stamps.

6. Different angles available by making tools by hand. Bevelers are the 1st thing to come to mind, followed by Basket stamps. Those that have use both, Factory and Handmade know what I am talking about. You don't have to hit the good tools nearly as hard because the angles are steeper and the tool is sharper.

When seeing someone's work the is very intricate, just bet they are using a handmade tool. Tandy is great to get a person started, to see if he/she likes the craft, but don't seem to work well enough to get a fine, detailed look.

These are just a few reasons, I know I am missing a bunch, but I will add more after awhile, as I am sure others will too.

Barry King

[Cyberthrasher]

Very good information. It's all stuff we mention a lot, but having it all in one spot from a trusted source is bound to be helpful to many starting out.

[Chief31794]

Great synopsis, I'm a little more direct, I would have said, factory made - Bad, hand made - Goood! LOL

Chief

[dirtclod]

Their is a difference and it's a BIG ONE ! A person comes into the light and out of the darkness when they use a handmade tool.

[TwinOaks]

While the first post covers a lot of the issues, I feel that the single most important factor was left out....perhaps out of modesty.

That factor is quality control.

A factory turning out thousands of the same type of stamps in a run, will not have the same level of quality control as tose made by hand. The human element, particularly the experience of one who uses the tools, just can't be matched by a machine.

[Cyberthrasher]

While the first post covers a lot of the issues, I feel that the single most important factor was left out....perhaps out of modesty.

That factor is quality control.

A factory turning out thousands of the same type of stamps in a run, will not have the same level of quality control as tose made by hand. The human element, particularly the experience of one who uses the tools, just can't be matched by a machine.

I think the other thing along those lines is the method of QC. No manufacturing process allows for 100% inspection, but relies on a sampling process. Hopefully that sample will include any bad product that's being produced... But, a 100% handmade product is obviously checked and re-checked for quality from start to finish because a person's hands are on it the hole time.

[Randy Cornelius]

also those dies that are used in the factory made tools wear out, the first tool impressions maybe good but as the production run continues the quality goes down as the die wears. Grap a handfull of the same basket stamp tools at a store and look at each one, you can tell the difference.

[eLw]

All of our stamps are handmade at Welker Handmade Leather Stamps, and I'll agree with the earlier posts, there is a HUGE difference between factory made and handmade, as Barry so well explained in the first post. When leather stamps are handmade one by one the quality shows in the finished product, rather than the assembly line... Anyways, our current offerings can be seen at http://elwelkerleatherstamps.com, all hand tooled and, we feel, superior to the factory made. Handmade tools may cost a little more than the factory made, but I'll agree with the earlier posts that in the long run they're worth the investment. QC makes all the difference.

Andy Hopkins

Welker Handmade leather Stamps.

[bizbeblu]

While the first post covers a lot of the issues, I feel that the single most important factor was left out....perhaps out of modesty.

That factor is quality control.

A factory turning out thousands of the same type of stamps in a run, will not have the same level of quality control as tose made by hand. The human element, particularly the experience of one who uses the tools, just can't be matched by a machine.

OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Please note that I'm not against handmade tools (in fact I love the concept and generally the execution and I've actually made a few simple ones myself). Still to categorically say handmade = good, machine made = bad is really false. The key to quality in both cases is the care taken in the the making. There are many reasons why manufacturing has evolved thru assembly lines, to machine aided - jig based, to CNC laser or other cutter/maker methods. One is obviously greater productivity. The capital investment in tools is generally cheaper than continuing to pay humans to do things by hand. We are also making a false comparison between mass-produced-cheap-as-possible Craptools and carefully made precision tools. I'm sure I'm not alone in noting that I have a rack or two of Craftools (some a couple of decades old), and I'm also sure I'm not alone in that fact that I curse at them with some degree of regularity.

But there is another very important point here: repeatability and the ability to statistically check and control output. I'll state this bluntly: no hand made object can compete with a well designed and executed CNC machined product - say in this case a stamping tool. Assuming the maker maintains similar input material, keeps the equipment in working order, and samples regularly for variation, a CNC product will have minute variability and often much finer detail and also greater complexity. Put in a crude way: do you really want some guy in a shop somewhere hand shaping the pistons for your truck?

I - and I suspect most of us who work with our hands - are predisposed to value hand made things. This makes sense when we are describing intimate objects (things we wear, keep close to us, use by hand) the variability in human making is a valuable thing. In tools I want quality, durability, and repeatability. I'm quite sure that Messrs. Hopkins, King, et. al., make beautiful tools though I've never used them. Will there be a time when CNC controlled machining will come to leather working tools? Don't know. It's a small market and the up front costs are significant.

Food for thought and obviously not the last word on the subject,

Robert

[bruce johnson]

At least one stamp maker is using CNC already, and there are still some grerat stamps being turned out one at time on a mill by others.

[eLw]

I agree that we can't say handmade good, machine made bad, on an overall level. I know what CNC machines are capable of. I have, however, seen some pretty poor mass produced machined tools. I've noticed that even Craftool is coming out with a handmade line of their stamps. Care taken in the making is what it's all about, as Robert said in a previous post. I believe three words are the key here: quality, quality, quality. No one wants to work with a poor tool. Quality, whether it comes by hand or by CNC, is something all leatherworkers want and need in their tools. There are some great stamps being turned out by both methods. However we turn out quality is the key. Whether we're Toyota with kaizen, or a master tool maker with hand held gages, I believe that quality is something all leather stamp makers should strive for. I applaud the advances in CNC, and though we're a small handmade leather stamp company, we strive for the same thing every day. Nice thread, and as been said before, obviously not the last word on the subject.

Andy Hopkins

Welker Handmade Leather Stamps

[bizbeblu]

Andy,

You have certainly nailed it. The three most important things in the creation of anything are quality, quality, quality. (Now I might make an exception for say sand bagging a rapidly rising river to try to save the town. In that case it would be sand bag, sand bag, sand bag No one can ever accuse me of not being a tool aficionado. As a carpenter/builder of some 40 years experience I have got the best of every thing and in some cases more than one.

I'm trying to get a handle on how much difference a - let's call them handmade, artisan made, non-massproduced or whatever - and the Craptools I currently own. Clearly, with the possible exception of the Al Stohlman stuff, it's all made at the lowest possible price. I'm sure better tools can assist in finer work. With the Craptools at least I can make the long drive to the big city and pick the stamp up and examine it. For others, like yourself, how do I know what I'm getting, and perhaps most important if the stamps are $25+ @ which tools are going to make the most difference in my work? In my thinking bevelers are among the most important (I do a lot of old school floral and such). I have I guess 5 Tandy models only one of which is worth a ****. Then I think of some of the erratic stuff I get from basket weave tools. I'm convinced that they are not bilaterally symmetrical.

I really do want better tools in no small part because of how long I have them in my hand and also to make finer products. Perhaps some of the tool makers here can make suggestions of what would be the best pieces to start with and how to know what I'm getting. (Is there a return policy perhaps?)

Robert

You are of course absolutely correct that CNC can make crap. It is a function of the design, the quality of the programming that runs the machine, how well the machine is maintained, and of course the quality of the raw material going in. CNC's strength is control of repeatability and we've all seen in say WallyWorld 10,000 absolutely identical ugly widgets.

[Chipper]

I like Barry King tools. Yes, they cost more than machine made tools but, for me, BK tools are a superior value for these reasons:

1. As a buyer I know exactly how the tools are made and the metals from which they are forged.
2. They have a life-time warranty. If the tool wears out or breaks, which none of mine have BK will replace it at no charge for as long as I am alive. The exception being that a buyer can't expect to return an abused tool and expect a free replacement.
3. I also find value in being able to call Brad at Barry King Tools. He knows everything regarding the tools and is gracious. Try finding someone with his knowledge at too many of the machine made outlet stores.
4. I am confident that whatever I buy from BK I will only have to buy it once.

I tend to choose quality and service over price. It took a lot and I mean a lot of misspent money before I attained the previously mentioned tendency. A hard lesson learned.

Chipper

[mikeyes]

I'm just starting out leather carving after a long hiatus and out of pure nostalgia I bought stamping tools made by Tandy before 1963 - I was an avid leather worker from 1958-1961 when all my tools were stolen - just to combat my sense of loss from that incident.There seems to be a distinct difference between those tools and today's Tandy tools.

Is the difference between the vintage tools and handmade tools enough to switch (once I can find the money, of course) if I can restore my old skills with lots of practice? I'd like to hear a few opinions on the differences as my understanding is that many of the older tools were also partially hand made.

Thanks

Mike Keyes

[OdinUK]

I got my first tools from my gran who bought Craftool in the 60s and 70s, and as I required more I bought the same brand from Tandys and I noticed a huge difference in quality of some of the tools. The new ones just aren't as good. Matting tools dont have the same sharpness the old ones had. Sometimes I find there is too much chrome so the pattern is less well defined.

I recently bought some stainless bargrounders, a steep beveler and a raiser from Gomph Hackbarth and these are far superior to any of the standard craftool tools I have. In future I will only buy handmade tools unless its a CNC made stamp. The extra cost is will worth it in my opinion. I'm not saying dont buy cheaper mass made tools, they are ideal for getting started and general use.

[Greywolf]

I am and always have used Tandy craft tools I don't have a problem with them yet but I can see that I will need to upgrade to better tools in the future, the new professional line is supposed to be a lot better so I might buy a couple and do side by side comparison. The handmade tools are the best as I understand it but if manufacturers start using CNC machines I think those tools will take over the market if there QA is good. I used to be a CNC operator and you just can't beat the work these machines do if the design is right. Bottom line is that Tandy tools are great for a beginner to a near advanced leathercrafter but when you get experience you want to upgrade to better tools, it's like comparing a Chinese made micrometer, it'll work just great but then you use someone's Starret micrometers and your hooked, even though they are a lot more expensive and you are at least paying some what for the name, it's still a far better tool!

[retiredff]

I understand all of the responses on this subject, however, for the beginner or even advanced hobbyist I can't do $25 per BK tool vs a pre-'63 craftool on ebay that are in 20+ lots I can buy for $2-3 each. These pre'63 tools might need to have some rust removed, but for practical and financial purposes, they work fine and have put out countless leather pieces since they were made. If you have a production shop where these tools are tax deductible that might be a reason to upgrade or if your ideas there are no tools available and a custom tool is required. With my limited experience I think practice, practice and more practice and some GOOD leather makes more difference that a $25 BK basketweave stamp. Most people that are buying a tooled custom belt have no idea if the tools you used are '63 or BK's newest. I've always leaned toward being cheap, OK, I squeak when I walk I'm so tight, but the collection I have of mostly pre-'63 (Craftool Co. no letter prefix) and Craftool Co. USA (with letter prefix) and I have had no issues with the tools! Some of the lots I bought there were the newer Craftool USA/Craftool that look off color to me and I have compared say a pre-'63 #400 veiner with a NEW V400 and there is a difference in the impression. I have read the pre-'63 tools no 2 are alike because they were hand made, not stamped. I'm at the point now I don't buy lots of the old tools anymore because I end up with over half or more in duplicates and have to resell them, not for profit, just break even, and sometimes that is difficult.

Just my $0.02

Tony

[TinkerTailor]

I have a craftool co 548 geometric that is so crooked, the machine operator had to be drunk. It is so obviously skillfully manually machined, the faces are all dead flat and the edges are all sharp however the angles of everything are skewed from the square portion in the middle and one side has a tilt........ I can make it work, and it makes a nice mark, but if you turn while working your pattern will look like you were drunk doing it....

[Art]

Greywolf,

Look at a new Starrett Micrometer and notice the Made in China on it. Oh tool god, say it isn't so, but it is.

Tony,

Barry King uses a machining center and a CNC Lathe. When making detailed tools, you can't take much of a cut, so it takes a while, hence they are $40 a tool when you add in marketing costs etc. Still a bargain when a Bob Beard basket or geometric can go North of $100.

It is a little hard finding good pre-'63 basketweave or geometric stamps. There are also precious few pre-'63 tool lots going for $2-$3 apiece, I know, I watch those carefully. Still, if you take your time and fill out your collection slowly, even if a basketweave stamp will cost you $15-$20 for a good pre-'63, it is money well spent.

Art

[retiredff]

Art,

Just scored a 'LOT' last evening on evil bay. There were 18 pre-'63 tools and they cost me $3.20 each, shipping included. That is alot less than I can buy any tool anywhere. The tool numbers were:

103-3

103

103 1/2

104

204

207

349

422 RARE

431

444 RARE (NOT D444) I think it's a starburst or camo

451

524 RARE? 6 point star I think

701

705

812

816

851

877 RARE

7 of the 18 I already have and will sell off any duplicates and hopefully break even. I won't know for sure the number of duplicates until I get the tools and verify the numbers the seller posted.

I have some pre-63 on ebay now and the response even at $2-3 each has been poor, maybe because XMAS is close?

Tony

Edited December 21, 2015 by retiredff

[retiredff]

EDIT on above post, it won't let me edit again.

By breaking even, I mean if a lot cost me $2.50 per tool w/shipping included, the ones I don't want if I can sell them for the $2.50 I'm happy. I have bought some where my cost was $1.70, if I can get $2-3 I will but like I said in my last post, I have some marked down to $2 each and still no offers.

[retiredff]

UPDATE#2:

I received the lot I bought. The tool #'s were correct except for 1. The tool he had listed as 812 was actually 312 that is a RARE sunburst stamp. The stamp listed as 104 I had so I compared them side by side and stamped. One of them was slightly smaller but the impression was the same (just smaller). I didn't see any reason to keep both so one of them will be sold.

Tony

Everyone have a nice XMAS and a Happy New Year!