Machine Questions

[Snpr9696]

Hello All,

Im a watch strap maker for a little while now and my order volume is starting to really pile up. While these orders are accounted for I would still like to make some stock for available purchase and this is where my concern lies. Hand stitching the straps takes what seems forever and I have been contiplating purchasing a Hand operated Stitching machine. The Tippmann Boss is the one that comes to mind for me. I would like something and operated for two reasons. More precise control over the stitch and quiet operation since most of my work is done later in the evening while my 4 year old is asleep.

Im just wondering what the leatherworkers opinions are on this method of thinking, the machine im looking into, as well as the desired results compaired to a hand sewn saddle stitch. I really enjoy the stacked offset look of a saddle stitch.

thank you for your time.

[billymac814]

What size thread are you using? The Boss works well with heavy thread through thick leather. You may be able to set it up to work with thin thread and leather but it wond be ideal. It wouldn't be my first second or third choice to sew watch straps. Also make no mistake about it the Boss is a Loud machine to operate, powered machines are much quieter.

Ill leave the recommendations to some other people as far as which machine would be best for you but I would think something with a roller foot on top would be good, you could get very close to the edge if need be and make very nice stitching.

[Snpr9696]

billy thank you as ive never thought of that.

im using mostly Veg tan 4/5 -5/6 oz, also oil tanned leather and Horweeen.

i use anywhere from 277-346 thread.

Could a less expensive machine do the trick. I also need something on the smaller end too. think home offce.

here is what im sewing.

[billymac814]

Those are a lot thicker than I was originally thinking. If you're using that thick of thread and leather the boss would be fine. Its definitely not a quiet option though. You could also use a 441 clone, a short arm version would be fine. There may be other options too like the 45k type machines but I'm not familiar with them so I can't recommend them but I think you can get those with a roller foot that would do very nice stitching on the front, you may get some marking on the back with those from the feed dogs though.

[Snpr9696]

I was leaning towards a hand operated machine for control reasons.

Also can I get that close tot he edge with the boss.

[billymac814]

The Boss is easy to control but so are the 441s with a servo and speed reducer.

You can get right up to the edge with either with no problem. The 441s are considerably quieter than the Boss is but the Boss is still a very capable machine, or at least mine was. I know some others who've had bad experiences with them.

[Snpr9696]

So is there a low cost option similar to the 441. Im looking to be around $500 -$1200. im still going to handstitch a lot but I will use this as well for making available inventory.

[billymac814]

Not really in the 441 category but check out those 45k type machines. Check out the techsew 3650 HD. That should suit your needs pretty well, it'll be on the higher end of your budget but there's really not much less that'll sew with that thick of thread.

[CowboyBob]

http://www.tolindsewmach.com/cb2500.html

Since you have a budget in mind we have the same machine but without reverse for $995.00 + shpg

[Greystone]

IMHO bump it up to the cb 2500 and make it work for you ,,,,,,

heavy stitch,,,,,and close the ends by hand a couple hand stitches,,,

BUT the,,,,

Cobra 3 or cb 3500 could be the bomb,,,,,,, just a thought db,,, worth considering for???????????

the next project or one you might turn away,,,,

, future investment.......... a little more but a lot of return options,,,,,,db

[Snpr9696]

I love all these options. Not to be a pain but everyone is so helpful, thank you.

Is there any option for a smaller unit. Say table top. Or is a dedicated desk type model the only way to go. How big are they?

[billymac814]

They aren't too big and those stands they come on are fairly small and can be wheeled around easily.

I would go for the Cowboy as Bob mentioned, I didn't think of that earlier and he gives great customer service.

You don't need to close the stitching by hand with the watch straps, just turn the strap around and go the other way, you won't really miss reverse unless you're stitching large things that can't be turned around.

The 3500 or 4500 are definitely nice but if you're just making watch straps and nothing else there's no point in spending 2.5 times the money on something you don't need.

[Snpr9696]

Sorry I had a double post there

Edited March 1, 2013 by Snpr9696

[Snpr9696]

They aren't too big and those stands they come on are fairly small and can be wheeled around easily.

I would go for the Cowboy as Bob mentioned, I didn't think of that earlier and he gives great customer service.

You don't need to close the stitching by hand with the watch straps, just turn the strap around and go the other way, you won't really miss reverse unless you're stitching large things that can't be turned around.

The 3500 or 4500 are definitely nice but if you're just making watch straps and nothing else there's no point in spending 2.5 times the money on something you don't need.

Agreed but the thing that puts me off a bit is the cowboy 2500's feed dogs that leave impressions on the bottom. I usually stitch after dye process and I don't want to go back over the strap to smooth these out. Ill need something with the smoother feed dogs. Again sorry to be a PIA

I'm ready to buy just want to make the right move.

[billymac814]

Your gonna have to make exceptions somewhere. Either to your budget or the feed dogs. The time it takes to smooth out the marks will be nothing compared to the time saved from hand stitching. You'll have it stitched sooner than you would have threaded your needles to hand stitch it. Also depending on the leather you're using it may not mark it up too bad if its fairly hard stuff.

If you can swing the cash you can get the Cowboy 3500 but at that point you may as well get the 4500 since they are so close to the same price. You wouldn't regret it if you can do it. You can either use the smooth feed dogs or slotted plate with those.

If money is the issue you're pretty much back to the Boss then. Its needle fed so there's no feed dogs to worry about and if you're soles doing watch straps its really not a bad choice. I can't stress this enough though, buy a used one!! In my opinion its insane to spend 1500 bucks on a new one when for a few hundred more you can get into a 3500.

I'd also recommend giving Bob a call or send him an email, he knows WAY more than I do and may know of something else suitable. He may have something used as well.

There's also a "portable" 441 I just seen in Shop Talk. Its quite pricey and hardly portable, it just doesn't have a stand really, it has the motor mounted to it or something like that's I can't recall the manufacturer off of the top of my head

[Snpr9696]

Thanks billy. You have been a great help.mmive been leaning towards the techsew 3650 HD.

Seems to be pretty fair in price for what it offers. Uses the servo motor and thread sizes I need also.

[billymac814]

The Techsew is basically the same as the 2500 so you'll have the feed dogs to contend with. I don't think it'll be much of an issue with what you're doing though. I'm sure both machines will be fine, I wouldn't worry about the lack or reverse either, its a non issue for those straps, just start a little away from the end, stitch to the starting point then rotate the strap and go the other direction. That is how I stitched belts on the Boss when I used it. I'm sure the 2500 would come set up with a servo and reducer or a gear reduction servo plus Bobs customer service is great.

A lot of people choose their brand by which dealer is closest to save on shipping, that makes sense as well.

[Ferg]

I agree with Billy on everything except the reverse. Both of my machines have reverse and I simply would not be without it.

Also: Believe me you will decide you want to do other than watch bands when you get a machine.

As Billy said, call Bob Kovar. Tell him what you wish to do now and think real hard about the future.

The cylinder machines come with a table you can remove giving you almost, two machines in one.

The heads of these machines will weigh on average 100 pounds. The floor plate is steel on a cylinder arm, it is heavy also. They need to be heavy to

dampen any vibrations from the machine when it is running.

ferg

[billymac814]

Reverse is nice to have, I definitely wasn't implying it is not needed for anything and I'm glad to have reverse on my machines but if all you're doing is watch straps and that's your sole business and youre on a tight budget I don't think it would be missed much. I used the Boss for years to sew belts and holsters and it never bothered me not having it. If you get into bigger stuff that can be turned around then it becomes more of a problem for sure and you'd have to back tack by using the handwheel and manually moving it back and lining up the next hole and so on.

I wouldn't want to be without reverse either but if my situation was different I could live without it.

[Snpr9696]

Thank you Billy. I just spoke with Bob who went over the specs with me on the CB2500. My main issue was with the feed dogs leaving impressions which Bob advised me they could smooth them out for me to leave less of a indent. Just have to check the sizing of space I have then figure it out.

[billymac814]

Sounds like your on track. Many people find work arounds to the marks. I'm sure you could send him a sample of what you're sewing and he could do a test with one so you can see the results or if you're close enough go and see him, he has plenty of other cool stuff to look at too.

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

Hi Bob,

I have seen a number of old 45k25's with a 'knob' on the balance wheel to run the machine as a hand crank. The only thing I have seen in production is normally sold to be attached to steering wheels and sometimes offer the option to beginners who don't want to spend a lot of money and are intimidated by electric machines.

http://www.tolindsew...com/cb2500.html

Since you have a budget in mind we have the same machine but without reverse for $995.00 + shpg

[CowboyBob]

Hello Darren,

That's a great idea esp when space is limited,I'll have to give it a try & see how it works.

Thanks,

Bob

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

Will send you my bank account details for my cut of the millions that idea will make you

Hello Darren,

That's a great idea esp when space is limited,I'll have to give it a try & see how it works.

Thanks,

Bob

[Snpr9696]

I'm so close to pulling the hook but mi just concerned about the feed dogs and the impressions. So it looks like my budget just got bigger. What's the best deal for a walking foot 441 clones for what I'm doing. I would love someone to tell me 1500-1600$ bt I know that's not gonna happen is it. Especially shipped to NJ