Singer 16-41?

[TinkerTailor]

I have never seen a singer that is a springer when you remove the cover plates. Cover plates are there to give access to the mechanicals when you need to adjust them, but keep your fingers out while you are sewing. If you look at machines from the 1800s most of the mechanicals are out in the open. As machines matured, they put covers over as much as they could for safety, cleanliness and appearance, but mostly for safety.

The reason i posted the 141 manual is according to the lists, It has the same recommended usage by singer, and in the pictures of the machines appears they appear very similar. The feed may be different, but this should not effect weather you can take the covers off. Quite a bit of the lube points will be similar as well. They probably use the same bobbin and hook,  Look through the 141 manual while you are staring at your machine, it will look very similar. It may help you understand what is going on with your machine. There are frequently no manuals for these old singers, as well as the fact that there are a bazillion different machines, it is common to not find anyone still alive that has worked on them. In addition, singer would slightly modify a machine and then release it as a new number. Sometimes they made SV models for special customers that became production machines. The SV thing is a great thread on here to open yer eyes to the oddities of singer.

The bottom line is sometimes we have to use wrong but close or a combinations of wrong manuals to find the info we need on old machines.

If you put the machine in a rubbermaid covered with a sheet, the parts cant go far......Wear safety glasses.....lol

Edited October 10, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[cdthayer]

Thanks guys.  After hearing from you, I don't think that removing the face plate will be all that dramatic now.  But, I didn't mind checking with knowledgeable people before proceeding.

CD in Oklahoma

[leecopp]

Hey CD, (extending secret treadle-on handshake)

It looks shockingly similar to the Singer 42-5 that I have on a treadle. Pictures are at https://sites.google.com/site/oldironmachines/home/singer-42-5 

No jumping out bits on mine, but a more complicated movement than I expected.  I have seen notes about modifying a Singer 16 stomping foot for the 42-5.  I note that it has the same odd rounded base plate (and flat hinges?) as my old 16-33 and the 42-5. 

It will probably be a nice tool in your arsenal. It should spin quite a bit easier than the triple-feed 111w155 . 

Happy days .. first taste of Fall in central Florida, Temperatures in the high 70s.

 

Lee

[cdthayer]

Hi Lee.  I haven’t been on Treadle-On since Cindy took over.

Your Singer 42-5 looks like it’s set up for more leather than my Singer 16-41, but the feeds look to be similar if not the same.  I wonder if the 42 was designed due to the number of guys complaining about the small bobbin capacity and maybe the punching power of the 16?  (My 16 takes the same bobbin as a 31-15 (2996).)  You’ve got a very nice-looking machine there.  I’ll be keeping my eye out for one of those to add to my collection.

Since I really like using treadles, I’ve been playing with the 16-41 and enjoying the sound of it.  It’s a distinctive sound with its click when the outer foot snaps forward.  It kind of reminds me of my Singer 29K70 machines, although it’s a different sound. I like the unique sounds these old machines make when they’re stitching.  Singer old iron is just fun!

I bought another possible treadle machine, a Singer 78-3 that I’ve only seen photos of (daughter and son-in-law have it in OKC for me) that is old Singer iron, but will be even less of a leather machine than your 42-5 or even my 16-41.  It’s a needle-feed machine with no feed dogs.  It might do alright for light leather, but I’ll probably use it for wovens.  It’s got a nice husky balance wheel on it that should lend itself well to treadle operation, and I’ll probably let it share the Frankentreadle with the 16 unless I get lucky and find yet another Singer Industrial Treadle Stand.  I’ve bought the last 4 that I’ve seen in my area, but they don’t come up very often.  I have all of mine taken up (Singers 31-15 roller foot, 96-40 darning foot, 95-40 ss/20U zz that share a small cut-out, and the 16-41)  I can’t wait to hear what a 78-3 sounds like when it’s stitching.

Back to your 42-5, I had a really nice White Sit-strate Treadle stand that I was saving for a project, but made the mistake of storing it double-stacked on top of another treadle cabinet.  It got bumped off onto a concrete floor and busted one end into pieces back in 2010.  It’s a shame, since they’re really nice treadle stands.  I haven’t done anything with it, and I’m not sure that I even found all of the pieces or where they’re at.

CD in Oklahoma

 

Edited October 12, 2016 by cdthayer

[Darren Brosowski]

The 42-5 and 16 class use the same top casting but the bottom is entirely different.

The 42 uses the long beak shuttle

[leecopp]

Hey CD,

I have a Singer 78-1 model running very nicely. Great for wovens, probably light leather as you noted. Very capable sewer, but very few feet available in modern times. There is a Consew 28 which appears very similar. It is of my standard herd of 4 .. 78-1, 42-5, 31-15, Anker RZ. 

Here is a fun youtube link:

 

[CowboyBob]

Lee,nice looking machine & video !

 CD the 42-5 was made for larger thread up to #346 where the 16 class can use up to 207 with some fiddling.

Edited October 12, 2016 by CowboyBob

[cdthayer]

OK, I removed the face plate on my 1917 Singer 16-41, and here’s the scoop...

There are only three screws attaching the face plate instead of the “4” that I mentioned earlier.

Nothing can “fly out” of the head when the face plate is removed, but be heads-up, the presser bar hand-lift lever can fall out if the outer foot linkage is allowed to swing outwards.  The lift lever simply pivots on a round stub, and the foot linkage keeps it on that stub.  The face plate keeps the foot linkage from swinging out.

I reset the needle bar height with the needle clamped in the proper position while I was in there.  The needle bar clamp is the type of clamp that has one center screw that is accessed through a hole in the head casting under the arm.  Straight access to the screw head is provided when the bar has reached BDC and came back up to intersect with the hook.  With the needle plate off, the hook and needle are plainly visible to set the bar height.  There’s no scarf on the Organ 16x63-18 needles that I got to use in it, so I just eye-balled it with the thread hole in the needle.  It test-sewed just fine.

Everything in the head looked good, but a few things didn’t get oil when I oiled from the outside.  Next time I’ll give it more oil to make sure that it leaches to everything that needs oil.  I just hate putting in too much and having oil running down the feet and needle, so I try to oil sparingly.  All of the rollers are free-turning and don’t show any flat spots, so I think the machine has been well maintained even though it looks like it has been used pretty hard.  I appreciate the past owner or owners for breaking it in for me.  It really turns over freely.  Just what I need for treadle operation.

CD in Oklahoma

 

[TinkerTailor]

If you fold up a paper towel and put it under the foot when not sewing, then give the feet and needle a quick wipe before you start, your oil problem will be solved. Its better to do it this way than risk under oiling to avoid drips.

I sometimes have issues with aligning smaller needles cause my eyes are old and i hate wearing my glasses. One trick is whittle down a toothpick or something so it fits in the needle hole and then use that as a guide for needle alignment. They sell cheap plastic tools for this. The other trick is to use small smooth jaw needle nose and gently grab the needle right at the eye on the flat sides while inserting it. This will give you a reference to align the needle by.

As far as oiling, the heads of machines usually have a hole for oil access from the outside for all of the oil points. Factories DO NOT want the user to take the machine apart for oiling. Sometimes you will have to rotate the machine until the oil hole in a shaft appears through the hole in the body. In other cases inside the head, there are places that are gravity fed, and by putting oil into the holes at the top, it works its way down. In alot of cases all the slidy bits inside will be gravity fed and rotational bearings will have an oil hole. While you have it apart, try to find the hole at all the rotational points, and see if they line up with holes in the casting. They usually will and can be oiled with a long neck micro oiler.

Oil well and oil often. Oils well that ends well.

Edited October 23, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[cdthayer]

Good advice TinkerTailor, but I’ve learned that a little oil goes a long way, and too much tends to just attract lint and dirt build-up.  Now that I know what things look like inside the head on this one, it’ll be easier to feel confident that everything gets oiled from the access holes.  I use a syringe with a long needle to draw oil out of a bottle and direct it to the points in the machines.  Later on, I’ll still be popping the face plate off once in a while to clean out the lint, and give everything personalized oil attention then.  I’ve found that if I raise the take-up lever to its highest point on a lot of machines, the oil points tend to line up the best with the outer oil holes.  This one looks like it’s going to be the same way.

I have an old broom in my shop that has small enough straws on it to fit my relatively small needle eye holes (lots of 18s and 20s in my shop).  I align the needle eye with a straw in it, and then save the straw when I can.  Sometimes they get away from me and I have to go to the broom for another one.  My broom should last long enough for me to expire.  And I have a good excuse to not sweep anything with it.....

I learned something else about this 16-41.  I think it’s got a substitute needle bar in it.  It’s missing the thread guide that rides on the bar at the needle clamp, so I dug around in my parts and found a guide and mounting screw.  But the needle bar travels up into the head to where the screw hole almost disappears, so the screw interferes with the bar travel.  That’s why there isn’t a thread guide on it.  So, I’d say that the bar came out of a different machine.  I’ll dig around and see if I can find a good needle clamp that has a thread guide built into it, or just leave it like it is without that guide.  It will sew fine without it.

One thing about firing these old machines back up, is that they’ve sometimes been a lot of places, sewn a lot of things, by a lot of operators, worked on by a lot of mechanics, and had a lot of parts replaced.  Sometimes, the “proper” part wasn’t available, so a substitute was made that worked.  That’s what mechanics used to do.  You never know what you’re going to run into on the old iron.

CD in Oklahoma