"What in the heck do this do?" Installment Two

[Prince]

So I've had this stuff for a few months now, bought it on ebay hoping I could find some uses for it but before I knew it I was buried under deadlines and other junk that popped up so long story short, now I've got commissions back under control and I've had a bit of a chance to organize my shop a bit, clean up the machines a bit and start figuring out what they are and what they do. Hopefully some of you guys can help me figure out what some of this stuff is and what it does and how it works!

Alright so now with part two.

The Landis thing fascinates me; It's quite large and weighs a ton. You turn it on and the motor starts turning then you press the petal which engages a sort of clutch and then the big 'engine' inside starts turning and metal shite starts moving every which way inside and out. It looks like it's meant to stitch the edges of something (there is no throat to speak of) My guess is the outer rim of shoes and even though I have not plans to make shoes (maybe a couple pairs of boots some day) I figured it would be a sheath maker's dream; just stick the 2 or 3 pieces of the sheath in there and let it do it's work. Also for bags and belts and stuff too. It looks like it sews with 2 curved needles and one seems to be broken on mine and then there's a bobbin too which means 3 feeds of threads. I'm a novice at this stuff so it makes my brain to explode thinking about it. How does that even work? And can I adapt it for the uses I have in mind? Maybe others?

In spite of it's appearance of complexity it seems like it's over engineered to be solid and unbreakable even though it sounds like it's gonna break with every clankity-cla-chunk when it's going 90mph. And by they way, that's it's only speed unless you wanna idle/slip the clutch thing a bit (probably bad for it) and it's momentum keeps it going for quite a few clankities after you release the clutch. I suspect it was made before electronics dominated the world. Kind of reminds me of a steam locomotive. I'm sure I'll have to request tips for how to thread the thing when I get around to doing that cause I haven't been able to find a manual for it online or off.

O yeah, and heat... what the heck is that for?? It has a heat control; does the motor get really hot or something? Even so, what exactly would it do to regulate the heat? Or maybe if your in cold areas and the oil needs to be warm enough to flow? I really have no clue.

Next is the Sutton thing. It looks to me like a stitcher of some sort... certainly an atypical one, but one none the less since it's got thread and all so what else would it do? Since it's for shoes the only thing I can think of is that you could stick your shoe over the post and stitch away in awkward freedom. Again, not caring about shoes I imagined being able to sew odd shaped things like leather helmets, elbow and knee armor sections, weird shaped bags, and overlays on already shaped leather armor. Maybe other stuff if I can think of it. Think this is possible? Any other ideas?

Tips and clarification would be greatly appreciated!!

As a more general question; is it impossible to invent a dual feed thread input that would replace/remove the bobbin? I assume it must be or they'd have made it happen by now.

[Prince]

Here's the Sutton thing pics

Now that I look at the pics (what a sloppy oily mess) I see that it doesn't look too fun to thread... I'm sure theres a trick to it though.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Azmal

[BradB]

The top one, maybe time travel, did it come with a seat?

[Kevin]

I'll try #2 now.

The Landis is a curved awl machine. The shoe is placed sole side up on the "work table", the awl comes up, makes a hole, then the needle goes down through the hole and picks up the thread.

I think I've seen a manual for this, but if you can't find one get hold of Shoe Repairing by Henry Karg. This has some diagrams and troubleshooting section. It also has a straight needle machine, patching machine and a metallic fastener (nailer that uses wire). It also has business tips such as, "It should not be a meeting place for idlers,but one that women and children will enter without hesitancy."

The heat is for the wax that the thread runs through. Linen thread soaked up the wax and the wax sealed the stitch holes and made the thread into "pegs" that held everything together even after the thread was worn through on the surface. Now there is liquid wax that performs that function and works very well. On harness machines, they had a gasoline burner that kept the whole machine hot or the wax would solidify and break the thread.

Sorry, but I don't know anything about the other machine other than I think it does a McKay stitch. Kevin

[celticleather]

I think Noah had a Landis machine on the ark . . . not sure whether for ballast or as an anchor!

Manuals for machines of this type can sometimes be found on the Smithsonian website as free downloads, but it may take a bit of searching.

The Sutton machine is an insole stitcher, for attaching soles from the inside of the shoe (as you say, like a moccasin). I think they used a fairly crude chain-stitch. I have a similar British-made machine in my shop, and it's still performing fairly well.

[Kevin]

I have a Landis 12K, it took 3 of us to lay it down in the back of my truck. I got it home and inside a building. The next day I spent the better part of five hours getting it back upright, without it,the building, or me being seriously injured. I'd work on it a little, come in the house, scratch my head 'til I quit shaking, go back out and work on it some more. The old building has so much termite and rot I was afraid it would fall through the floor.

I'm ashamed to say I never have sewn on it, kids set my house on fire and I suddenly had bigger fish to fry(ha ha). I got to live in a travel trailer for a year and got a new bathroom and kitchen. This was about the same time Katrina hit, so I actually felt pretty damn lucky. I was able to hook up to my own electricity, water, and septic.

Whoops, I believe I have digressed, anyway, that machine is heavy. Kevin

[broncobuster]

the Landis 12 is a shoe machine. I have one and I do shoe repair but works good for harness work n straps. to get manuals "Proleptic" has a lot of manuals for purchase, Bronc

[rickybobby]

So I've had this stuff for a few months now, bought it on ebay hoping I could find some uses for it but before I knew it I was buried under deadlines and other junk that popped up so long story short, now I've got commissions back under control and I've had a bit of a chance to organize my shop a bit, clean up the machines a bit and start figuring out what they are and what they do. Hopefully some of you guys can help me figure out what some of this stuff is and what it does and how it works!

Alright so now with part two.

The Landis thing fascinates me; It's quite large and weighs a ton. You turn it on and the motor starts turning then you press the petal which engages a sort of clutch and then the big 'engine' inside starts turning and metal shite starts moving every which way inside and out. It looks like it's meant to stitch the edges of something (there is no throat to speak of) My guess is the outer rim of shoes and even though I have not plans to make shoes (maybe a couple pairs of boots some day) I figured it would be a sheath maker's dream; just stick the 2 or 3 pieces of the sheath in there and let it do it's work. Also for bags and belts and stuff too. It looks like it sews with 2 curved needles and one seems to be broken on mine and then there's a bobbin too which means 3 feeds of threads. I'm a novice at this stuff so it makes my brain to explode thinking about it. How does that even work? And can I adapt it for the uses I have in mind? Maybe others?

In spite of it's appearance of complexity it seems like it's over engineered to be solid and unbreakable even though it sounds like it's gonna break with every clankity-cla-chunk when it's going 90mph. And by they way, that's it's only speed unless you wanna idle/slip the clutch thing a bit (probably bad for it) and it's momentum keeps it going for quite a few clankities after you release the clutch. I suspect it was made before electronics dominated the world. Kind of reminds me of a steam locomotive. I'm sure I'll have to request tips for how to thread the thing when I get around to doing that cause I haven't been able to find a manual for it online or off.

O yeah, and heat... what the heck is that for?? It has a heat control; does the motor get really hot or something? Even so, what exactly would it do to regulate the heat? Or maybe if your in cold areas and the oil needs to be warm enough to flow? I really have no clue.

Next is the Sutton thing. It looks to me like a stitcher of some sort... certainly an atypical one, but one none the less since it's got thread and all so what else would it do? Since it's for shoes the only thing I can think of is that you could stick your shoe over the post and stitch away in awkward freedom. Again, not caring about shoes I imagined being able to sew odd shaped things like leather helmets, elbow and knee armor sections, weird shaped bags, and overlays on already shaped leather armor. Maybe other stuff if I can think of it. Think this is possible? Any other ideas?

Tips and clarification would be greatly appreciated!!

As a more general question; is it impossible to invent a dual feed thread input that would replace/remove the bobbin? I assume it must be or they'd have made it happen by now.

We have a Landis 12 in our shop for shoe repairs. The old shoe repairman cussed the thing for 11 years, when we thought it was a gonner we called a repair guy out and he cleaned it and oiled it, it never worked better!! Parts are available through a place called Pilgram Supplies, I can get the number for you if you need. I have never used it because I work in the saddle shop side, but I can hear the thing running when the shoe guy is using it. It does sound like a rattling train!! The awl is the most common part to break, we had the awl guide break into 2 pieces it managed to hold itself together until the new part arrived.

Over all they are a pretty good machine, because of the setup I would think it to work best for shoes and boots, but I have never tried it for saddle work. It is pretty cool that they are still in operation.

[rickybobby]

So I've had this stuff for a few months now, bought it on ebay hoping I could find some uses for it but before I knew it I was buried under deadlines and other junk that popped up so long story short, now I've got commissions back under control and I've had a bit of a chance to organize my shop a bit, clean up the machines a bit and start figuring out what they are and what they do. Hopefully some of you guys can help me figure out what some of this stuff is and what it does and how it works!

Alright so now with part two.

The Landis thing fascinates me; It's quite large and weighs a ton. You turn it on and the motor starts turning then you press the petal which engages a sort of clutch and then the big 'engine' inside starts turning and metal shite starts moving every which way inside and out. It looks like it's meant to stitch the edges of something (there is no throat to speak of) My guess is the outer rim of shoes and even though I have not plans to make shoes (maybe a couple pairs of boots some day) I figured it would be a sheath maker's dream; just stick the 2 or 3 pieces of the sheath in there and let it do it's work. Also for bags and belts and stuff too. It looks like it sews with 2 curved needles and one seems to be broken on mine and then there's a bobbin too which means 3 feeds of threads. I'm a novice at this stuff so it makes my brain to explode thinking about it. How does that even work? And can I adapt it for the uses I have in mind? Maybe others?

In spite of it's appearance of complexity it seems like it's over engineered to be solid and unbreakable even though it sounds like it's gonna break with every clankity-cla-chunk when it's going 90mph. And by they way, that's it's only speed unless you wanna idle/slip the clutch thing a bit (probably bad for it) and it's momentum keeps it going for quite a few clankities after you release the clutch. I suspect it was made before electronics dominated the world. Kind of reminds me of a steam locomotive. I'm sure I'll have to request tips for how to thread the thing when I get around to doing that cause I haven't been able to find a manual for it online or off.

O yeah, and heat... what the heck is that for?? It has a heat control; does the motor get really hot or something? Even so, what exactly would it do to regulate the heat? Or maybe if your in cold areas and the oil needs to be warm enough to flow? I really have no clue.

Next is the Sutton thing. It looks to me like a stitcher of some sort... certainly an atypical one, but one none the less since it's got thread and all so what else would it do? Since it's for shoes the only thing I can think of is that you could stick your shoe over the post and stitch away in awkward freedom. Again, not caring about shoes I imagined being able to sew odd shaped things like leather helmets, elbow and knee armor sections, weird shaped bags, and overlays on already shaped leather armor. Maybe other stuff if I can think of it. Think this is possible? Any other ideas?

Tips and clarification would be greatly appreciated!!

As a more general question; is it impossible to invent a dual feed thread input that would replace/remove the bobbin? I assume it must be or they'd have made it happen by now.

I asked our shoe repairman about the heat unit. The old style of thread lub was wax and needed to be heated before it could be used. The new lub stays liquid without heat.

[Randy Cornelius]

You have one of the true "TANKS" of the sewing industry. I have one as I thought I would get into making boots. It will sew belts, holsters, anything that has an edge to sew. Do not try to sew saddle skirts. The wool will get wound up on the awl and you will have a mess. Yours is just like mine and I have the orginal manual that I would be glad to copy and send. Parts and everything are still available through Pilgram shoe. Also any shoe repair supply company will have needles and awls. Good luck it will be an adventure. Find a shoe repair shop close to you that may have one and pick the guys brain on working on this machine. The heat was for when they would put solid bee's wax in the wax pot and melt it to lubricate the thread.

[AEtheric991]

The Landis thing fascinates me; It's quite large and weighs a ton. You turn it on and the motor starts turning then you press the petal which engages a sort of clutch and then the big 'engine' inside starts turning and metal shite starts moving every which way inside and out. It looks like it's meant to stitch the edges of something (there is no throat to speak of) My guess is the outer rim of shoes and even though I have not plans to make shoes (maybe a couple pairs of boots some day) I figured it would be a sheath maker's dream; just stick the 2 or 3 pieces of the sheath in there and let it do it's work. Also for bags and belts and stuff too. It looks like it sews with 2 curved needles and one seems to be broken on mine and then there's a bobbin too which means 3 feeds of threads. I'm a novice at this stuff so it makes my brain to explode thinking about it. How does that even work? And can I adapt it for the uses I have in mind? Maybe others?

The Landis is a great machine.I have two that I use for shoe repair. Its designed to stitch sole on shoes with a goodyear welt, but it will also sew most other things that you can fit into it, so watch your fingers. It should have a curved needle on top, and an awl on the bottom. Once you have it set up, the awl will stab thru from the bottom, making a hole for the needle and advancing the work. The needle then shoots thru that hole, grabs the thread from the bottom, and locks it around the bobbin thread. Repeat as needed. Only two threads are involved.

In spite of it's appearance of complexity it seems like it's over engineered to be solid and unbreakable even though it sounds like it's gonna break with every clankity-cla-chunk when it's going 90mph. And by they way, that's it's only speed unless you wanna idle/slip the clutch thing a bit (probably bad for it) and it's momentum keeps it going for quite a few clankities after you release the clutch. I suspect it was made before electronics dominated the world. Kind of reminds me of a steam locomotive. I'm sure I'll have to request tips for how to thread the thing when I get around to doing that cause I haven't been able to find a manual for it online or off.

The Landis is designed to be idiot/cobbler proof and will stop anything up to about a .38. You can take the whole thing apart with a screwdriver and a couple of wrenches. After a little practice, you should be able to find the line between too fast and too slow. Once you figure out how many "clankities" yours will keep going after you take your foot off the gas, you can coast to a finish. One of mine stops on a dime, and the other always goes for an extra three or four stitches. I don't know why...

O yeah, and heat... what the heck is that for?? It has a heat control; does the motor get really hot or something? Even so, what exactly would it do to regulate the heat? Or maybe if your in cold areas and the oil needs to be warm enough to flow? I really have no clue.

About the time the earth's crust cooled a little, linen thread was used with the Landis. To make this work properly, the heat contol would warm up a pot of wax, which would help the thread to go thru things, protect the thread, and help seal up the holes as you go. I've never used this feature or seen it used. One guy I used to work for claims to have done this, but he stopped using the wax sometime in the '60s. I fill my wax pot up with Sellari's thread lube, which looks like milk, and use poly thread. The manual suggests that if you do use wax, that you be sure to clean the Landis daily with kerosene!

Next is the Sutton thing. It looks to me like a stitcher of some sort... certainly an atypical one, but one none the less since it's got thread and all so what else would it do? Since it's for shoes the only thing I can think of is that you could stick your shoe over the post and stitch away in awkward freedom. Again, not caring about shoes I imagined being able to sew odd shaped things like leather helmets, elbow and knee armor sections, weird shaped bags, and overlays on already shaped leather armor. Maybe other stuff if I can think of it. Think this is possible? Any other ideas?

Your sutton thing looks like a chain stitch McKay type machine. It works best for sewing the soles on loafers and things like that. The curved post is designed to be able go inside the shoe as far as the toe. I have heard of guys fabricating a table that attatches to the post so that they can do bags and tack, but never seen this in person. It may be an urban legand. I have a newer lock stitch McKay(well a DM-88) and have found it to be not so useful on my medieval projects. Its pretty akward to keep non shoe shaped things balanced on it in order to sew and I find hand sewing better fits my medieval asthetic. I want to believe that a harness stitcher is the answer, but I don't have one of those. I haven't yet convinced the wife/CFO that just because I want one, that means we need on at the shop.

Let me know if you have any other questions.