Owb Pancake Width

[chiefjason]

So, I've been at this a while. I'm pretty happy with the results I'm getting. Customers are happy with the results they are getting. But I'm also always on the lookout for better or easier ways to do things,. I had one customer this week return a holster because he thought it was too wide. Now, I do make them a bit on the bigger side. And this is just one customer complaining. But the OCD part of me is forcing myself to ask. About how wide, front to back, are you guys building your pancakes? Lets just streamline this for 1911's, full or commander size. Since it was a commander size 1911 flat back pancake that led to this question.

I actually went back and measured some of my personal holsters and other stuff, and the holster falls right in line with what I normally make. Full and commander 1911's and double stack polymers are running in the 7" to 8" range. And that also falls in line with some of the holsters I had from before I started making them. And I also understand that holsters are like shoes, you try it on and you like it or you don't. I've got a buddy that's really skinny and I finally had to make an avenger for him because a pancake would wrap from belly button to spine, lol.

Thanks.

[Dwight]

The retail market is and always will be just like the Kentucky Derby.

Some bet on sure things only.

Some bet on long shots only.

Some bet on stallions only.

Some bet on "pretty horses" only.

Personal choice makes a horse race, . . . and makes the retail market. Lobo for example, . . . seems to make a lot of pancakes, . . . I very seldom make one because my clients prefer IWB.

The cowboy rigs I make are the holster and belt rigs where they are totally separate. I have not yet made a drop loop "fast draw" rig or a "bling, bling" Roy Rodgers, or Lone Ranger rig.

Again, . . . the market determines what we make, . . . and if that 3% of the market is finnicky, . . . my personal approach is I will lean over to help them, . . . but I will not become a pretzel to their whims, . . . too many other makers out there who will.

May God bless,

Dwight

[chiefjason]

OWB is my thing though. It's how I carry 99% of the time. I build what I carry, I build what I like; it seems to sell well enough. I'll do other stuff on request, but I don't push it as much. Like I said, all but one has been received well. part of this is a personal issue with me. I take criticism, it just bugs me until I get things settled by either fixing it or deciding to ignore it because it was just a personal issue with one customer. A few things I have decided were my fault, and I fixed them. A few more, just personal issues like ride height, cant, and probably this width issue. Just wanting to bounce the question off of folks here and see where my stuff lines up so to speak. Doing something different is fine, and I'm fine with some of the differences between my holsters and others. Being drastically different may not be so good though. I don't think I'm that far off though.

[jbossartcustomgunleather]

My 1911 pancakes fall between 6 and 7", it seems like the ideal width more my designs. I'm always striving to improve my products, and am very concerned about customer satisfaction. That being said, sometimes it's a flaw with your product, sometimes the particular design doesn't work for the customers application, and sometimes the customer is just plain difficult. I have run into all three at one time or another, the latter being the most frustrating. This is part of our work, and we work things out the best we can to make our customers happy, and keep their business. As far as feedback on your holsters, if most everyone is very happy then you are doing well, and take the critique of the other customers under advisement. I've been making holsters for 5 years, and I am still improving my designs.

[particle]

I like to pre-curve my holsters when I form them - that way when the customer is wearing the holster and tightens his or her belt, it doesn't have to pull the wings too far toward the body, which causes the holster to flex and bend too much, as well as putting excess pressure on the back of the holster causing it to want to collapse. I try to leave about 1/2" from the edge of the holster to the edge of the belt slot. The amount of space you leave between the belt slot and the stitch line will vary with the thickness of the holster, but I'd say you want at least 3/4" clearance between the slot and the trigger guard and top of slide stitch lines. The thicker the gun, the more space you'll need.

How do you know how much is enough? Your mock-up holster... Make your pattern, then make a mock-up out of scrap leather. When I form my holster, I like to bend my wings downward enough so I can see straight through both of my belt slots without the back of the holster getting in the way very much, if at all. If it's too hard to bend the leather that far, add a little more width to the holster.

Here's an example of where I probably should have added a little more width to the pattern because the wings had to curve pretty far (very thick pistol), but I was able to make it work.

Here's an older photo that shows how much curve I shoot for:

[malabar]

Here's my rule of thumb: Make a holster as wide as it needs to be, and never wider than it has to be.

Eric does beautiful work. He makes a really refined pancake. If you notice, the body is just wide enough to bend the "wings" around to position the belt slots correctly.

Other styles might require some additional length to make it easier to thread the belt through the loops.

tk

[Slow Learner]

I like to pre-curve my holsters when I form them - that way when the customer is wearing the holster and tightens his or her belt, it doesn't have to pull the wings too far toward the body, which causes the holster to flex and bend too much, as well as putting excess pressure on the back of the holster causing it to want to collapse. I try to leave about 1/2" from the edge of the holster to the edge of the belt slot. The amount of space you leave between the belt slot and the stitch line will vary with the thickness of the holster, but I'd say you want at least 3/4" clearance between the slot and the trigger guard and top of slide stitch lines. The thicker the gun, the more space you'll need.

How do you know how much is enough? Your mock-up holster... Make your pattern, then make a mock-up out of scrap leather. When I form my holster, I like to bend my wings downward enough so I can see straight through both of my belt slots without the back of the holster getting in the way very much, if at all. If it's too hard to bend the leather that far, add a little more width to the holster.

Here's an example of where I probably should have added a little more width to the pattern because the wings had to curve pretty far (very thick pistol), but I was able to make it work.

Here's an older photo that shows how much curve I shoot for:

I like the tooled addition. How did you sew that on after molding the holster? I assume the holster was glued and sewn prior to molding. It is a classy touch.

[particle]

Thanks! I tool the piece, then assemble as normal. You have to make the tooling pretty deep since it does soften a bit after wet forming, but you can go back after it's formed (while it's still wet) and trace over the edges a bit with a beveler or modeling spoon to deepen the tooling again, but I don't normally need to do that. You also can't do any detail molding, but that's pretty difficult to do anyway on 1/4" thick leather. I just press inward a bit at the trigger guard and ejection port with my thumbs for added retention.

[Dwight]

Thanks! I tool the piece, then assemble as normal. You have to make the tooling pretty deep since it does soften a bit after wet forming, but you can go back after it's formed (while it's still wet) and trace over the edges a bit with a beveler or modeling spoon to deepen the tooling again, but I don't normally need to do that. You also can't do any detail molding, but that's pretty difficult to do anyway on 1/4" thick leather. I just press inward a bit at the trigger guard and ejection port with my thumbs for added retention.

Particle, . . . did I read that correct and you are using 16 oz leather for the front piece?

I had seen it earlier, . . . had not thought that the leather was that thick.

BTW, . . . that is some excellent tooling from my perspective. Much as I would like to, . . . I just do not have the patience to do that level of artistry.

May God bless,

Dwight

[particle]

Dwight - the reinforcement is 8oz thick, and so are the body pieces. When I said detail molding was difficult to do on 1/4" thick leather, I was just referring to the reinforcement area. I pretty much make everything out of 7-8oz leather. Thanks for the compliment about the tooling! I still have a lot of room to improve - I'd love to hang out with some local saddle makers and watch them tool some saddle pieces.

[jbossartcustomgunleather]

That is some beautiful tooling, I am inspired

[Samalan]

Very nice job! love it