First Saddle Project - Advice Appreciated

[rdl123]

Here are some pics of the rigging plate all sewed up... Going to put second plate together this Saturday hopefully.

I hand sew @ only 5 stiches per inch - I figure I'll get good at that and then bump up to 7 or 8 per inch.

[rktaylor]

That looks great. I appreciate getting to follow your progress.

I am resisting the urge to jump into my second one. I need to have a good plan first, but I think I will order a tree tomorrow.

Randy

[AdamTill]

Looking good! Which Carlos stamp is that?

Stitching is looking good too, from what I can see. Going to be hand stitching myself, and given making up a set of zippered shotguns with all hand stitching was a big enough project, I've already noticed that the Tippman Boss is on sale. We'll see!

[rdl123]

Randy: What style of saddle do you plan to make for saddle #2? Who do you use for trees? I just ordered the Jeremiah Watt DVD's by the way (from country supply). Should be here in a couple weeks...

Adam: The border stamp is just a tandy stamp - It seems to work... The basket weave is a barry king stamp, the 1/*" bead is a Barry King push beader - Use that in conjunction with a push beveler I picked up from Bruce Johnson. I've done a lot of hand stitching on chaps and chinks too - Good practice for saddle making. I also built a new rear cinch for my current saddle - Just wanted to make darn sure I had the patience to sew 7 linear feet by hand through heavy skirting leather before I up and started a saddle project.

However, I've been thinking pretty hard a about a sewing machine too - What I have concluded is that there are two good options - Buy a Chinese built machine for about $2000.00+ from techsew or Leightons or similar or save up little longer and get a Pearson #6 for around $3000.00 - Apparently those Pearsons do a beautiful job and are simple enough to run...I know Steve Mason uses or has used one...and his work always looks perfect. I think that's the route I eventually want to go (unless I happen across something used for a great deal) For now though I'm going to be hand sewing...

Ron

[Aurelie]

I would be interested to know how many professional saddle makers can get a complete saddle out of two hides...And would that include stirrup leathers too?

R

Easy

depends on :

1/ what kind of saddle i do = flate plates or inskirts

2/ if i ruin something (seat/fork ) - crossing fingers here i have ruined nothing for a while now but it s an eventuallity

and i would say : it depends how many saddles you've already done and how many leather scraps you have.....

I am using 2 and a half sides or 2 sides not for so long.....time to build up my scraps stock (those natsty things are useful when building up a ground seat for example )

when you start from nothing : everything must be placed on your side.....hence you re using more leather....

The 2 first saddles i have built...i ruined 1 seat, 3 forks.....took me 3 sides for each saddles

SO? keep faith You re doiing it right

[Goldshot Ron]

Your tooling looks great. I like your edges. Also, the beading around your borders came out good. I think you're coming along really well. I've only a couple of suggestions on your rigging for the next saddle. The stitching on the plate extends a little too far up on the fork area. This may affect your ability to make skiving adjustments when you attach the plate to the tree. Also, if you add some filler pieces around your rigging plate bars, it will help with sewing when you pick up a machine. It will also give you a flatter appearance when finished, but I don't think the fillers will give you any extra strength, just visual. I've attached a photo to discribe what I'm suggesting; however, this is a different style of rigging plate.

Ron

[rdl123]

Ron:

Thanks for the compliments and for the tips...I'd read in Al Stohlman's books about the rigging plate plugs but when I watched Dale Harwoods DVD's I noticed he didn't use them - However, on saddle 2 I will use plugs...I think even just from an aesthetic standpoint...

That rigging plate you show - Do you use that in flat plate rigs or for in skirt riggings? Nice clean looking plate.

Ron L

[rktaylor]

Ron L: I got my first tree from Batie's Custom Tree in Welch, OK. I have read a lot of posts about trees since then. I thought the tree was alright, but saw better ones at the Wichita Falls Saddle Show. I guess you don't know what you don't know. Cost for me is still a factor.

Saddle #2 will be similar to this barrel saddle. It is lightweight and comfortable. My wife and daughter fight over it (can't have that). I plan to order a BWBR tree from Batie's to start. I finished the JW video last night. It was very good and I think it will help me think through the design of this saddle. The saddle will just be for pleasure riding, so weight is a primary factor.

Goldshot: Thanks very much for all your tips and comments. I find them extremely valuable. Synthesizing information from multiple sources is challenging, but necessary. Thanks for chiming in.

Randy

Edited January 31, 2014 by rktaylor

[Goldshot Ron]

Ron,

The last photo I used is a plate that I've used for inskirt rigging. On flatplate I use the 5053 plate. I mentioned the plugs so that the rigging looks flat, but it does help with sewing, especially when using a machine. I've recently seen where highend tack will use fillers on straps to account for the added dimensions of hardware when machine sewing up to the hardware to make the stitchline look neater.

Randy, I'm no expert, but I hate reinventing the wheel. I'm currently working on what I call my California Style saddle. I've redoned the seat twice, completely remade the cantle back twice, and lord knows how the taps will go. It will have a fair amount of tooling, and design and appearance has been difficult. I've used techniques from: the Stohlman's, Troy West, J. Watt, Al Gould, Steve Brewer; and, designs from Pedro Pedrini, Cary Schwarz, Gordon Andrus, and Ray Holes Saddery to give credit to just a few people. So hurry up with your next saddle so I can use your ideas.

Ron

[BOB BRENNER]

If I may make a suggestion as to the installation of rigging hardware in regards to both flat plate and in-skirt rigging. I am of the opinion that all installations no matter what type of hardware must have plugs. When plugs are not used the saddle maker is automatically building a defect into the saddle. If plugs are not used a void is created between the two pieces of leather the thickness of the hardware. One of the characteristics of leather we as saddle makers like and use is leather’s ability to stretch and mold. When plugs are not used the leather will want to stretch and mold to fill in that void over time leaving the leather on top of the hardware proud of the rest of the leather. In picture below from this topic, where the rigging has been molded you can see the leading edge where the wear will incur. The area of the saddle where the flat plate or in-skirt rigging is located is the probably the highest point of wear due to the constant motion of the stirrup leathers moving back and forth. This is why on Dee rigged roping saddles a wear leather is used to protect the skirt from this inherent problem.

Over the years I have saddles in my shop for repairs by both custom makers and the production makers to repair this problem. Some are just beginning to indicate a problem and some have been to the point of failure is just around the corner. In ones that were about to fail the wear was so bad the leather was worn completely through and the hardware was exposed.

The use of plugs is not the complete cure for this problem. I have seen saddles with plugs installed and the wear was so heavy the heads of the rivets were partially worn away, causing a failure.

So, any time one builds a saddle no matter what type of rigging that is used this inherent problem must be addressed in the design and building of the saddle.

Respectfully,

Bob