Ground Seat Question

[keplerts]

If you are building a saddle on a tree with a "built in" ground seat (like a Ralide tree) do you still put in all the leather layers to build up the seat? Or, do you just put your final seat covering over the built in part with no other leather seat pieces? Did I confuss anyone?? I have a tree like this to use for my first saddle making project and wasn't sure how to approach this.

Thanks for your thoughts about this.

Tom

[keplerts]

No one has any insight to this?

[Josh Ashman]

Tom,

I haven't built on a tree with a "built in" ground seat, however I have had a few production saddles with Ralide trees and to be honest they felt to wide and low in the front. It's been my experience that you get used to what you ride in but if it were me I'd sit on the tree for a while and if it seemed OK move on "as is". If it feels wide and low up front then build it up a little. If it feels too narrow up front you could probably build it out a little too, just whatever makes it feel about right to sit in.

I've never done it but if you did decide to built the ground seat up a little it should be as easy as roughening up the Ralide with a wire wheel then contact cementing your leather in place. Keep it even, symmetrical and skived to feather on the edges and it'll probably turn out fine.

Good luck,

Josh

[Goldshot Ron]

Tom,

Think of the preinstalled ground seat as you would your regular metal groundseat. How does it feel on your rear? As Josh said, you need to determine how much build up you want in the front and seat comfort. If you are going to install a padded seat, then that will determine your build up. LaPorte and Chicago Stock Yard trees would require less underlayment than a tree with an added plastic ground seat. Most of the molded trees (Ralide, Laporte, etc.) have dimples in the seat area between the cantle and bars. You need to fill in these dimples, this will require a second groundseat piece to smooth out the bumps.

Ron

[George B]

I think maybe you are mistaking the strainer for the ground seat. I have used a couple of Rawlide trees and have always put the leather ground seat in. The leather ground seat is what allows you to get the shape, rise and feel of the seat. Adding, skiving and doing so until the seat feels the way you want.

The preformed plastic seat (strainer) should allow you to do away with the installation of the strainer and strainer bars.

But as stated earlier, if the seat feels good to your bottom and has the rise you want, you can do without the leather ground seat.

The only problem I have seen with those trees used without a leather ground seat is that they tend to cave in around the stirrup slots and can look sunken in after a while.

[oltoot]

In the 70's I built some kids/youth saddles on ralide trees. The ground seats were awful torture for little bums so I shaped them up with a top piece and then skiving to finish. If i were (which I wouldn't) using them in a mass production setting I wouldn't do that because then some major pieces would have to be fit instead of just be stuck on. The Kevlars w/ built in ground seat look a little better but you would still ask yourself the same questions as to comfort and respond accordingly.

[keplerts]

Josh, Goldshot Ron, George, and Oltoot,

Thanks for your recommendations. If I understand you right, If the seat feels good the way it is I could just put the finished leather seat over top of the preformed ground seat. If it doesn't feel good then I could build it up just like you would a wooded tree with nothing between the bars. It is entirely up to the builder? I have sat in the tree and it does feel kind of narrow and low in the front. So, I can fix this by layering in some leather to make it feel the way I want? Then just cut out where the preformed stirrup slots are? Would I still use a hand hole jig as Al Stolhman does in his book? I am not sure since there is already a hand hole formed. Sorry for all the questions. Maybe I should just buy a "real" tree and follow the Stolhman books as opposed to using this tree that was given to me. For some reason the ground seat scares me and I though using this tree might get me around that part of construction. Anyway, thanks again for your input. I now know what I need to do.

Thanks,

Tom

[oltoot]

The jig would be overkill. Make build up to lap over handhole instead of trying to match it exactly, then when it is shaped and dry, just trim to match both hhole ans sslots

[Ben]

Tom,

This is a good opportunity for you to add some leather to the ground seat and see/feel the difference. If you don't like it take it out and start over. I think you should use your imagination, and just jump in here. If you have a saddle that you like see if you can duplicate the seat. Building a ground seat from a metal stainer or an all leather ground seat is completely different but here you can get some experience with leather placement, skiving, and feel.

Ben