Are Patterns And Templates Protected Under Copyright Laws?

[Ian1783]

I want to be able to fashion an assortment of bags for sale in shops, at craft/farmers markets, etc., but worry that what I create from patterns I create using clues from other people's work might constitute copyright infringement of some sort.

I'm talking simple designs (time honored?) like possibles bags. I create a template from an image or pattern, adjust for size, material characteristics, etc., the sew out a bag to be sold for profit.

Do any of you see issues with what I'm hoping to do? Not talking Gucci knockoffs, or anything like it, but I am using basic designs that I re-purpose with custom touches.

Ian

SF Bay Area

http://imcinnis.blogspot.com/

[WillAdams]

Useful/unctional items are not subject to copyright protection. Specific stylistic aspects can be protected w/ a design patent, but must be marked w/ the patent #..

[Ian1783]

Thanks for the response, Will. While I'm still not sure I'm especially on top of this, any input gets me closer to being comfortable with where it is I'm heading (I think).

Ian

SF Bay Area

http://imcinnis.blogspot.com/

[Cyberthrasher]

Basically, a bag is a bag and can't be copyrighted like that. BUT, any individual styles of a bag can be. If a person cuts a certain scallop into the front flap, that's a design characteristic that can be copyrighted. I'm basically just repeating what was said above, but it's a touchy enough subject that it bears reiteration. If it's not an individualized design element, then you should be good. If it's just a square bag that's been done since cavemen first decided they needed bags, go for it.

[St8LineGunsmith]

making a bag and selling it from a pattern you bought from say TLF or a pattern you found on leatherworker.net is not copyright infringement however copying the actual pattern and putting the actual pattern up for sale is without a doubt copyright infringement.

[medsar]

I second what StateLineGunsmith says about copyright infringement. To add to that -- you can't take a TLF pattern and post it on leatherworker.net (even for free) without express written consent from the copyright holder, TLF. The reason is because you would be re-publishing copyrighted material under your copyright...which is illegal.

Also, I think it is good to acknowledge who you got the pattern from. It's not required legally, but it's good etiquette.

[Brazos Jack]

Lan, These fellers are on the right track for sure. Speaking as an author of books and patterns published for the leatherworking community I can tell you that if you purchase a pattern from Tandy, Etowah River, or anyone else; it's yours to use as you please. Making and selling the item is legal. Problems arise when one chooses to reproduce and distribute the pattern itself without the express written permission of the person holding the copyright. The only time you need to worry about selling a particular item is when it has a patent mark. So, keep on crafting! Jim

[Ian1783]

Thank you all for your responses! A fellow LW member posted a template that I regarded as his attempt at producing such using a drawing program. The template itself seemed to be based on a particular online seller's "possibles" bag.

My wife and I used this pattern for the basis of a few bags sewn out as tests while we acclimated to the craft of machine sewing. We made some adjustments to the design to better fit our design sense and purpose. We're enjoying the process, and have had encouraging responses from a couple of small retailers who'd like to carry our bags.

Interestingly, I pointed out to my wife a detail on a vintage Black Forest Cuckoo Clock owned by friends: a hunter's bag as part of the whole carved-in-wood theme - stag's head, rifle, bugle and bag. The bag was remarkably similar to what we now know as a "possibles" bag.

Ian

SF Bay Area

http://imcinnis.blogspot.com/

[St8LineGunsmith]

Lan, These fellers are on the right track for sure. Speaking as an author of books and patterns published for the leatherworking community I can tell you that if you purchase a pattern from Tandy, Etowah River, or anyone else; it's yours to use as you please. Making and selling the item is legal. Problems arise when one chooses to reproduce and distribute the pattern itself without the express written permission of the person holding the copyright. The only time you need to worry about selling a particular item is when it has a patent mark. So, keep on crafting! Jim

Hey Jim speaking of copied work How do you like this?

I made it with Harness Leather and lined it with 3 oz veg tan

[Brazos Jack]

By golly, now there is a sure nuff Brazos Jack Shoulder Holster! And it looks like you followed the instructions to the letter on the shoulder strap. Well done Sir! Just makes my old heart glad.

[St8LineGunsmith]

Yes Sir followed the instructions to a T and everything fell right into place

I am mighty proud of how my first one came out now I need to make a south paw rig for my self.

[taintedelephant]

I've said this about all forms of art, "it's all been done before". from movies to photography, painting, all the way back to cave paintings, there are no truly original ideas, that is why you have to put your own little or big touch of style on whatever you do. I recently designed a couple of front pocket wallets to meet my own needs, I would hope that they are one of a kind, but i'm sure if I did enough digging I would find a pattern someone made in 1945 that looks just like mine. I know that the pattern came out of my head, and I know the finished product will look different than theirs.

str8line, and brazos

What do you think about using a kit as a pattern? just for personal use. With the price on some of those things, its enough to buy a pattern, and all the materials 2 times over.

[Tramps Leatherworking]

New and original works of art are being created all the time --- even with the limited number of musical chords and notes, musicians still come up with new compositions regularly. As technology advances, people are able to create new things that only a few years before were unheard of... Find me another song that sounds like "Stairway to Heaven".

[taintedelephant]

The most notable part of Stairway can be found in Taurus by Spirit, and other elements can be found elsewhere. many of those elements probably were likely present in classical and or forgotten forms of music. I'm not saying that the artists stole those elements, or were not creative and talented. it's the execution that matters most. the pattern, stories, music are recycled, but the performance and arangement is legendary.

[Tramps Leatherworking]

I have listened to both songs and those are two totally separate pieces of music --- the riff in "Taurus" is just an Am descending riff that has been used in many songs, including "Dream On", and "Something" by the beatles... If Spirit had truly felt "Stairway" was a ripoff they wouldn't have waited 42 years to bring a copyright lawsuit... "Stairway" is an original composition by Jimmy Page that was truly a work of art.

[St8LineGunsmith]

I've said this about all forms of art, "it's all been done before". from movies to photography, painting, all the way back to cave paintings, there are no truly original ideas, that is why you have to put your own little or big touch of style on whatever you do. I recently designed a couple of front pocket wallets to meet my own needs, I would hope that they are one of a kind, but i'm sure if I did enough digging I would find a pattern someone made in 1945 that looks just like mine. I know that the pattern came out of my head, and I know the finished product will look different than theirs.

str8line, and brazos

What do you think about using a kit as a pattern? just for personal use. With the price on some of those things, its enough to buy a pattern, and all the materials 2 times over.

My thoughts is use the pattern until it falls apart and don't just limit yourself to just personal use, If someone likes something you made from someone else design make one for them and charge a fair price for your time and materials used.

for example i have sold a couple of the Brazos Jack design holsters to a couple of my CAS buddys but I always credit Jim for creating the design and I have no doubt Jim is flattered by me making something for sale from a pattern that he designed, That being said here is where I think Jim would have a big problem with me using his designs and would be blatant copyright infringement on my part Per say would be for me to print off a bunch of copys of his drawn patterns and instruction sheets and sell them to the public and he has every right to file suit against me at that point. when someone designs and sells patterns and instructions they expect those who buy their pattern to make the project from their pattern and also expect some will make these projects to sell publicly.

[NVLeatherWorx]

And that, St8LineGunsmith, is exactly the correct answer. There is nothing more to be said on that subject. If it was truly an issue, don't you think that a company like, Tandy for instance, would have an issue with some hobby guys making a living on just dying their kits, sewing them together, and then selling them for 3 times the kit cost AS THEIR OWN creations? I say this because there are some people out there in our market that are doing that very thing and some of them are making $5,000 per week, CONSISTENTLY, doing just that. These kits are sold to everyone who wants to buy them for the purpose of completing and then either giving away or selling them with no strings attached by Tandy (or whomever created the base kit). However, the instructions, designs, and other information included with the kit (which also happens to outline the individual parts) can not be sold or transferred to ANYONE else for the purpose of being used to create a finished product. When you buy that kit, YOU have the right to use it for your works; you can't share it with anyone else without violating that agreement with the seller. If someone else wants to make something like it then tell them to go buy the kit and all is good.

[taintedelephant]

Tramps, lets just disagree.

Edited December 17, 2014 by taintedelephant

[WyomingSlick]

I have listened to both songs and those are two totally separate pieces of music --- the riff in "Taurus" is just an Am descending riff that has been used in many songs, including "Dream On", and "Something" by the beatles... If Spirit had truly felt "Stairway" was a ripoff they wouldn't have waited 42 years to bring a copyright lawsuit... "Stairway" is an original composition by Jimmy Page that was truly a work of art.

Oh ! Thanks a lot for making me feel really old by reminding me that "Stairway to Heaven" came out 43 years ago.

LOL

[Tramps Leatherworking]

Oh ! Thanks a lot for making me feel really old by reminding me that "Stairway to Heaven" came out 43 years ago.

LOL

Lmao, no problem! Getting old sucks, but it beats the alternative... sometimes... lol