Expensive Vs Cheap Pricking Iron

[Chris Hill]

I'm going for a saddle stitch with a nice angle to the stitches. I understand that a groover will straighten the line out significantly, so I'll be using a scratch compass (spreaders?) to mark my line.

My question is this:

If I'm using an awl to make my holes, does it really matter what I use to space them out with? Nice expensive handmade pricking iron, or a cheap Tandy punch that I simply don't hit all the way through? If it is only marking a place to put my awl, and not making any hole, then it seems (with my limited knowledge) that it shouldn't matter, and therefore pointless to spend big $ on this tool.

Please correct/confirm my thoughts.

[camano ridge]

Every body has there own way of doing things, I have been doing leather work for over 40 years. My system is mark the stitch line, groove then mark my stitches with an over stitch wheel, use awl to make holes stitch and go over with overstitch wheel to smooth and press down stitches. http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/product/craftool-overstitch-wheel-system-8091-00.aspx

The advantage of the overstitch wheel is that you can by multiple wheels for different spi much cheaper then buying different pricking irons. I think it is faster as you just roll the wheel in the groove you don't have to keep repositioning the pricking iron. Then after you stitch you can roll the over stitch wheel over the stitches (hence the name). to smooth and flatten out the stitches try that with a pricking iron. Just my two cents worth and just the way I do it.

[Black Dogg]

Could not have said it better, Camano Ridge!

One thing I don't quite like about the overstitch wheel you linked to is the fact that the screw has a tendency to come loose on long lines if not really tight. The little screwdriver that comes with the set is a bit wimpy for my taste. I have upgraded to single (fixed) wheel overstitchers a couple of years ago but still use this one in my travelling toolbox. Nonetheless a good beginner setup!

[Chris Hill]

So y'all still get a more dramatic slant to your stitches or are they fairly strait?

[Troy I]

I agree with Camano...This is the way I do it also.

[camano ridge]

I agree there may be better wheels out there the ones I use are from 40 years ago. The slant to your hole comes from positioning your diamond awl when you pierce your hole. I usualy position my awl so that top (or apex) of the diamond is turned about 20 - 45 degrees to the right of my stitch line. My stitches usually end up looking pretty straight. Here are a couple examples where you can see my stitching. Just to be clear I am not saying there is anything wrong with pricking irons many people use them and like them. I just have never needed to use one.

Edited February 12, 2014 by camano ridge

[Chris Hill]

...and that strait stitching is what I'm trying to avoid, which is why I'm not cutting a grove. I want a nice slanted stitch. I'm really just wondering what the benefit of the slanted teeth are on the Dixon style irons. Why pay so much more for them then say the Tandy ones?

[DavidL]

japanese pricking irons do a decent job, but the european/ english pricking iron are more precise

[St8LineGunsmith]

regardless of your method of how you decide to mark your stitch spacing the trick to getting a nice stepped stitch all depends on the how the stitches are placed in relation to the direction of the slant of the diamond awl hole.

step 1 & 2. I stab and make first stitch from the left with the slant of the diamond to the top at 45 degree angle looking forward.

step 3. the second right hand stitch is placed to the bottom of the diamond hole. repeat steps 1,2 and 3 this will establish the stepped herring bone pattern.

Edited February 13, 2014 by St8LineGunsmith

[Chris Hill]

Right on. Thanks! I've heard that the order and placement of your needles, as well as adding the knot will create a nice stepped stitch. I think you've confirmed my thought that the pricking iron won't have any effect on the end result.

[St8LineGunsmith]

as long as you are placing the stitches in correct sequence then you don't need to make the knot.

despite popular belief the knot don't make the stitch any stronger

but ya the pricking iron will have no effect whatsoever on the result you are trying to achieve. the pricking irons only purpose is to mark an evenly spaced stitch hole line.

FYI you can still get a nice herring bone effect on your stitching with a grooved stitch line as long as you stay in sequence.

[St8LineGunsmith]

watch Dangerous beans make the saddle stitch this is how to do the saddle stitch the right way

http://youtu.be/TGuiha5S2oE

[9tpi]

I always buy the very best tools I can afford. I'm a Hydraulics technician by trade and ONLY buy Snap-on tools.

With the exception of "designer" goods, there is usually a good reason for the difference in price. Weather it's the materials used or how those materials are treated. For example the Vergez Blanchard pricking irons are hand forged (hardened) steel, allowing the tangs to stay sharper longer. I doubt Tandy stuff is anything near that level of quality.

If leather is something you plan to work with for a while, I'd buy quality.

IMO.

I may have veered off topic slightly, but it fits the expensive vs cheap argument.

Edited February 19, 2014 by 9tpi

[JerryLevine]

Chris,

I'm with 9tpi. I've used both stitch marking wheel/overstitch wheel (mine are the fixed wheel variety, mostly from Gomph) and pricking irons. I prefer the pricking iron method because it marks the slant for you so it always comes out uniformly angled. That said I would not disagree with the methods described above. If you search you tube for "nigel armitage saddle stitch" you'll see the pricking iron in action: www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGuiha5S2oE

A couple more things that may also help with the slant:

As others have mentioned above, how you hold your awl is critical to a consistent stitch. If you can find the correct position of the awl and then carve a finger notch in the handle or carve the handle in some way so your hand can always come back to the same position with the awl at the same angle, that will help considerably. You do have to practice keeping the awl perpendicular as well so you maintain an even stitch on the back side of your project: this can be very tiring until your muscle memory kicks in!

In order to help with this, you could mark a light line on the back of the project with your dividers set the same as your stitch line (if you can do it without marring the project) which will help with your aim and getting all the stitches out in the same line.

Good luck,

Edited March 10, 2015 by JerryLevine

[silverwingit]

I have a bit of a different view on stitching from previous posts. What camano ridge described is classic Western stitching as taught by Al Stolhman. Nigel Armitage (Dangerous Beans), being a Master British Saddle Maker, teaches classic British saddle stitching.

The major difference is in the finished product. Western stitching recesses the stitches in a groove where British stitching relies on the tension applied to the stitch work to recess the stitch line. The means for achieving the two types of stitching also differ. Both overstitch wheels and pricking irons are effective in determining the location and hence the spacing of the stitches. But what hasn't been mentioned is that the pricking iron serves a couple other important functions. It helps guide the awl blade into that slanted position where the overstitch wheel doesn't provide any assistance for this. With an overstitch wheel method of spacing stitches, the leatherworker's hand-eye coordination, technique and muscle memory are left to determine the angle of the awl. The pricking iron also serves to ensure that the stitches fall in the right location along the slant and hence in a straight line. If you push the awl through off-center along the slant, the ends of the pricking iron marks guide the blade back toward the center.

In my own experimentation, I tried using an overstitch wheel without first using a stitch groover to see an apple-to-apple comparison of the effectiveness of the wheel against a pricking iron. What I discovered is that using the groover forces stitches to lie in the straight line of the groove. In other words, the groove hides small deviations from perfectly straight or from that elusive 45 degree angle. The exact position and angle of the awl doesn't matter so much since the stitches will be forced into that straight groove anyway.

So it is a personal preference sort of thing. You like one or the other for your own reasons. But, do try both and experiment like I did. You will learn volumes and be in much better position to decide for yourself. I personally appreciate the beauty of the zig-zag appearance of British stitching.

Michelle

[REN]

I used Blanchard, disappointed. I love the high end Chinese pricking iron now. They are hand polished and punch through thick leather easily and have beautiful line. It's the only thing I need to make a hole for stitching, nothing else. But for box stitching I still use awl.

[Geoff]

I used Blanchard, disappointed. I love the high end Chinese pricking iron now. They are hand polished and punch through thick leather easily and have beautiful line. It's the only thing I need to make a hole for stitching, nothing else. But for box stitching I still use awl.

Could you please provide a link to the high end Chinese tools?

[REN]

Could you please provide a link to the high end Chinese tools?

there are a few on taobao.com I post some pic on Instagram, the good ones are mainly pricking iron or edger. My Instagram is RenLeather

[Django57]

Hi i have had a look on your instagram and your stitching is very neat , i noticed the name C.mason on one of the Pricking Irons but i can't find anything about that company on the net , could you post a link to there web site please ?

[grmnsplx]

I am also interested.

taobao.com is almost entirely Chinese so searching it is a problem (for me). Have you got a contact for the seller? perhaps they also have an Alibaba store?

[REN]

Hi i have had a look on your instagram and your stitching is very neat , i noticed the name C.mason on one of the Pricking Irons but i can't find anything about that company on the net , could you post a link to there web site please ?

the tool maker has instgram. His id is cmdachong. He doesn't speak very good English though. I intended to be his reseller here. He sell a set of pricking iron that has 2 5 and 10 teeth for $100, do you think that's okay? He hand polished every teeth.

[REN]

I am also interested.

taobao.com is almost entirely Chinese so searching it is a problem (for me). Have you got a contact for the seller? perhaps they also have an Alibaba store?

Just fyi, Alibaba is usually for wholesale. I know one worker has Instagram , his id is cmdachong, others only have taobao, but you can go to my Instagram and have a look at the teeth and performance, if you are interested I can help get you one. They are are all hand polished so still cost around $100. My Instagram id is RenLeather.

[DavidL]

Chinese iron and vergez are very different tools.

Vergez are forged (tool steel), hand hammered to shape, case hardened and filed by hand by a craftsman. The cost is in the skill and quality of the tool. Apparently it takes 3 people and a few hours to make..

Chinese iron is made by machine most likely with stainless, maybe case hardened. The vergez are for professional use, just like how japanese hand planes need to be tweaked for use the vergez teeth are left for the customer to polish and tweak.

Both are reasonable in price looking at what goes into the irons.

Edited March 27, 2015 by DavidL

[REN]

Chinese iron and vergez are very different tools.

Vergez are forged (tool steel), hand hammered to shape, case hardened and filed by hand by a craftsman. The cost is in the skill and quality of the tool. Apparently it takes 3 people and a few hours to make..

Chinese iron is made by machine most likely with stainless, maybe case hardened. The vergez are for professional use, just like how japanese hand planes need to be tweaked for use the vergez teeth are left for the customer to polish and tweak.

Both are reasonable in price looking at what goes into the irons.

With a Chinese worker, you can discuss the steel they use. You can use any kind of steel as you want as long as they can get it. For professional iron, they machine shape first to be very precise and then hand polished or what you called tweak. I tried to polish my formal iron but it took so so so much effort and I can't do it very good. Chinese now make low end and high end pricking iron from different workers and the quality and price are very different. You can get a pair of $10 or $100 or $300. At least ten Chinese workers are making very good irons and they are very well known among Chinese leather workers. I know there are also very good Japanese and Korean workers out there. I didn't see anyone in USA make these tools and I just want to share this info to more people to let them know there are choice other than Blanchard.

[REN]

The teeth from Blanchard and Chinese one. One is $230, other is $100. This is why I did not like my Blanchard, I was disappointed when I got it. But I understand Blanchard has to pay more to worker. And they have a big brand. But if I knew this, I would not buy. I want a good tool, not a branded tool that does okay.