Singer 29-4

[Bhebby]

Hello I am new to the forum and leather working. I have two machine Singer 211g156 and I just bought the 29-4 patcher. I am looking to see what the largest needle and thread I can run through the machine is? I would like to perform small projects and tasks with it. I know its more a patching repair machine however it sews like a dream(for what it is) I am interested in slings,simple holsters and the occasional item for my wife so I am allowed to continue to good off. I have these machines for canvas work and repair however I would like to make some things. If anyone else has one and can offer tips and advice please share and thanks in advance. I know its not a great machine for lond straight stitches but I got a good deal on it and it works great and has the original base. thanks-bhebby

[Cobra Steve]

Hello.

Singer 211: #23 needle, and #138 thread top and bottom

Singer 29-4: #22 needle, and #69,#92, top and bottom and on rare occasions #138 on top with one of the smaller threads on the bottom. This is not absolute, but pretty close. Steve

Edited February 14, 2014 by Cobra Steve

[Wizcrafts]

Using #138 thread on top will eventually warp the paddle shaped check spring that is inside the needle bar, just above the needle mounting bracket. If this happens, when you try to sew with #69 thread, there won't be any tension on the thread as the needle bar ascends and the loops will tend to dissolve, causing skipped stitches.

I always keep a couple of spare check springs in an envelope, in case the one in use loosens, bends, or breaks.

I rarely use any thread bigger than #92 in my patcher. My day to day patcher thread is #69 bonded nylon.

The thickness that can be sewn on a patcher is the height of the presser foot when raised with the lift lever on the back of the head - minus about 1/8 inch. The well preserved patcher may be able to sew 1/4 inch of leather. A highly tuned and tight model might even make it to almost 5/16 inches. The maximum lift is tied to the top tension disks point of release. When you lift the presser lift lever, you also disengage the top tension, 100%. To continue sewing at this height you will need to pass the thread around the front mounted darning tension disks, if your machine has them.

Singer patchers normally use System 29x3 round point (cloth) and 29x4 leather point needles. Most can also sew in time with System 135x16 needles, if their shafts fit inside the hole in the needle clamp. Everything really depends on how much slack is present in the shuttle drive mechanism.

The stitch length on a patcher is adjusted by the screw on the sliding puck on the back of the foot bar. The longest stitch is with that puck all the way down, in contact with the top of the foot. A perfectly tight feed mechanism can sew at 5 stitches per inch, into about 1/8 inch of leather. The length tends to decrease as the thickness increases, especially on the 29-4 models. I have had old patchers that could only sew at 8 stitches per inch, until rebuilt.

[treborterb]

Wizcrafts...I have been told that the system 29x3 and the 29x4 leather point needles were no longer in production and that the existing needles of the 29x3 and 29x4 variety were slowly being replaced with size 135x16 and 135x17. I have seen advertised 29x3 needles being sold in 10 packs for as much as $13.00 / 10 pack and advertised as limited supply and "no longer available when gone", as well as 29x3 and 29x4 needles for sale on ebay for a fraction of the higher price. Can you shed some light on this topic. Is there any truth to the discontinued 29x3 and 29x4 variety/type of needles and is there really any difference between the higher priced 29x3 needles... other than their higher price?

[CowboyBob]

I got a good buy on some 29x3,that's all that's on the box they are Groz-Beckart,but they are really 135x17 they have the scarf on them.It is my opinion that with this scarf that the 135x17,16 has is that you can move the needle closer to the shuttle for less chance of shipping stitches.

To my knowledge there is no more 29x3,4 left.We have been selling them 135x16,17 for years instead & they work.

Edited April 29, 2014 by CowboyBob

[treborterb]

Thanks Bob...so the 135x16 Organ needles wont necessarily have the scarf you describe on them, or do all the current replacement needles for the 29-4 have the scarf incorporated in the needle design?

[CowboyBob]

Yes,the needles now have the scarf in them.

[Zawlard]

On 2/14/2014 at 10:46 AM, Wizcrafts said:

I always keep a couple of spare check springs in an envelope, in case the one in use loosens, bends, or breaks.

I just picked up my first Singer 29-4 and while playing around with it and rotating the walking foot (is that called the bell housing?) I managed to break the paddle shaped check spring that Wizcrafts mentions in the above quote. 

My question is how do I go about replacing this spring? Thankfully a couple spare ones came with the machine when I got it   Thanks, Z

[Wizcrafts]

7 hours ago, Zawlard said:

I just picked up my first Singer 29-4 and while playing around with it and rotating the walking foot (is that called the bell housing?) I managed to break the paddle shaped check spring that Wizcrafts mentions in the above quote. 

My question is how do I go about replacing this spring? Thankfully a couple spare ones came with the machine when I got it   Thanks, Z

You're gonna wish you hadn't broken that spring.

First, remove the presser foot and stitch length regulator assembly. Next, unscrew the needle clamp and needle. The easy part is now over.

Get a drift punch with a 1/8 inch round shaft (flat face), and a fairly small inside diameter socket wrench socket. Have someone hold the socket over the stud that connects the needle bar to the take-up piston. Place the drift punch against the back side of the tapered stud and use a mallet to drive it out, from the back to the front. The socket should hold the stud after you drive it all the way out with the drift punch. The needle bar will drop against the needle plate. See if you can pull the loose needle bar up and out of its housing, past the take-up rack. You have to rotate the hand wheel to raise the rack to its top-most position. If you're lucky, the bar will come out the top and you can set it aside and proceed. Otherwise, read the next paragraph.

Loosen and remove the flat pressure spring from the back of the machine. Next, use a long flat blade screwdriver to remove the four screws that hold the entire rounded revolving head housing to the left side of the body. When the last screw is removed, pull the head away from the edge until the needle bar falls into your hand.

Set the needle bar on some cloths and clean the oil and grit off of it. Then examine the two tiny screws that are securing the top of the paddle spring to the indent in the needle bar. If you see the slots and can get a tiny screwdriver blade into them, unscrew the screws and set them aside away from each other. Set the one on the right in a cup or jar on your right and the left screw in a jar on your left. I promise you that it is easier to reuse these screws than to install new ones.

Remove the broken spring. Clean the channel under it and look to see if the thread has gouged a channel in the steel. If so, use Emory cloth, or a narrow file to smooth out the steel and remove the gouge. blow out any filings, then place a new spring in position. Insert the original screws into their original holes and tighten them down, making sure that the spring makes firm contact with the flat steel under it and isn't twisted out of the narrow channel it fits into.

Oil the needle bar and reinstall in in reverse order. When you reattach the tapered stud at the top, place the socket on the back and drive it in from the front.

Should you be unable to remove the tiny screws and remove the paddle spring, buy a replacement needle bar. Try to find one that has the spring on it. If the existing right side screw can't be reinstalled, you'll have to get a replacement and install it. Then, you have to file it down on the right edge to prevent it from gouging the inside of the needle bar channel in the revolving head. If you replace the left screw, it too may need to be files down a little to clear the housing.

When you're done, refer back to my opening sentence.

If you need parts, contact @CowboyBob, or @shoepatcher. Good luck!

[Zawlard]

LOL! 

11 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

You're gonna wish you hadn't broken that spring.

Thanks for the detailed instructions on what sounds to be an interesting adventure I'm soon to be undertaking, much appreciated   Z

 

[Wizcrafts]

5 hours ago, Zawlard said:

LOL! 

Thanks for the detailed instructions on what sounds to be an interesting adventure I'm soon to be undertaking, much appreciated   Z

 

Before you take the revolving head off, check the feed motion cam for slack motion. Do this by pushing and pulling on the raised foot with the stitch regulator set all the way down until it touches the  top of the foot. Every measurable amount of slack motion translates into lost maximum stitch length. You ancient feed motion cam may or may not be replaceable. If it isn't, you can bronze braze onto the puck shape to build up its diameter, then file, or grind, or sand it down for the best fit without binding as you rotate the butterfly handles. The maximum length will be 5 to the inch. There's no better time to rebuild or replace it than when the head is off the machine anyway.

[Zawlard]

Near as I can tell, using the process you describe I measure 2mm of rearward displacement of the foot and no forwards displacement. Would this be considered alot of slop?  And even if it's only a moderate amount I guess Id be inclined to address it since like you say

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

There's no better time to rebuild or replace it than when the head is off the machine anyway.

If I recall you or another member has a thread describing this type of repair?