Pfaff

[cardinal leather]

It looks like i posted this in the wrong place. Will try to add photos to it.

I need some advice from the sewing pros on the forum. A friend of mine has a couple of Pfaff sewing machines that he wants to sell to me. The first machine is a flat table 483 - 944/07 (900/51-BL) the second one is a post table 491 – 755/13 (900/53-BL. Both machines are roller foot. Both are powered by Teledyne AMCO Variostop 3 phase motors, built in 2001. They were used in a shoe factory that shut down in 2003. I am presently building a leather shop in my metal building so wiring in a rotary phase converter would not be a major issue. My shop has a rapid air system so adding air for the Variostop in not an issue either.

As my leather hobby/business progresses I will be doing strap work for my sons pet store both retail and wholesale in the future. With two auto upholstering projects in the future and boat covers to repair or replace. The question is will these machines be able to handle leather, canvas, nylon, projects up to about ¼” ?

Has any one used these roller foot machines? How do the geared roller wheel foot hold up? I understand from following the reviews on the forum that Pfaff’s are expensive to repair. However both are in very good condition and I should be able to buy, wire, air them for around 12-1300.00. Does this sound reasonable? Or should I be looking only at flat and post, walking foot machines?

Thank you all for any input you can provide.

Jim

[Wizcrafts]

You'll be good to go with the roller feet, especially the top and bottom drive on the post bed machine. They will sew 1/4 inch.

I don't know what the thread handling capacity will be. A Pfaff dealer may be able to tell you that. But, the needles that come with the machines should reveal what may have been run through them by the previous owner. He might know and even supply the thread. Otherwise, assuming a limit of #138 bonded thread, using a #22 or 23 needle is a safe guess, until otherwise instructed.

[cardinal leather]

Thank you for your input Wiz. I did finally get a chance to take a look at these machines this weekend. I also talked to a lady that ran them at the shoe factory. She reports that they are good machines and smooth to work with. Both of these machines have the Teledyne AMCO variostop on them. There is not much information available on these units. Both units say patent pending on them and there is information on line for the patent application but not much else. There are manuals available and I did download some of them to study. It appears that singer used the Teledyne variostop on some of their machines as well.

I am now trying to decide of they should be converted to either 110v or 240v again it is difficult to fine any information on motors for them. Does the variostop work with any aftermarket motor or are the motors and variostop proprietary to the Pfaff machines. Has anyone in the forum worked with this variance of variostop and/or have any advice on where to find more information?

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Pfaff post bed is a very interesting machine for sure.

When things come in to our shop that look like this, we have to make some tough decisions as to where we want to go with equipment like this. OK, first things 1st. The machine is about 30 years old, and, if it's working well, should last quite some time more. That's what you get in a Pfaff. If the machine is missing parts, this could be a big problem, but we'll talk about that another time. Good working Pfaff. Check.

Now, the motor. You don't like it, I don't like it, but we have to do something about this. 220V Three phase is very difficult to place in a lot of shops these days. Most people don't have it available. Even if you did have this power requirement available, you would still be starting out with a 30 year old plus electronic motor. If that motor breaks, nobody is going to want to fix it for you, and parts are few and far between. That said, if I had 220 three phase, I would use it until it breaks. Who knows how long this, or any setup will last.

If you do not have three phase 220, you can get wired within the United States for 220V single or 110V single phase power. In this case, it sounds like we need a new motor if we are going to get this machine to run. This is a common issue with old equipment being swapped around, and has been for a long time now.

Now, the third issue; the machine clearly uses pneumatics and solenoids fired off from the motor control box. This can be a good thing, if you want to keep this intact, or a bad thing if you don't want this type of automation. If you don't want it, most often to get the machine back to stock involves replacing parts. Sometimes expensive parts, like Pfaff parts. This could be a problem.

The verdict here? If that machine is worth it, we would either rip everything off that's automated and put a standard plain jane knee lifter and standard sew motor. Or, we would put a new motor that has controls to work with the solenoids so that, with compressed air, you can use the machine in the way it was setup and intend for.

I guess a third option would be a plain jane mechanical motor, or inexpensive servo with positioner, if you like. Then, use mechanical valves for the foot lifter and the reverse.

[cardinal leather]

Gregg,

Thank you for the review of this post. A couple of more questions if you don't mind.

Do you have any rule of thumb price for replacing these machines back to stock if I elected to go without automation?

How about the other options, the plain jane lifter with standard motor, motor that allows the air option and then the servo motor. Would all of these options require a reducer? Or would it be better to buy two pre-owned machines of the same style that are already converted.

The reason is of course that if they can be bought reasonable enough and make the conversions reasonable enough, I end up with two very nice machines that will do a multitude of operations. Then I would likley only need one more that would do the heavy work.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

A reducer is a pulley system that slows the machine down to a crawl. You can use a reducer with any motor setup.

[Chris B]

Ok I will admit right off the bat, I know NOTHING of sewing machines. But on phase conversion, a subject I know a little about. I built a rotary phase converter to run my 12" Clausing lathe. I will tell you with an rpc, it sure likes it electricity! If I had to do it over again, I would go with a static converter. You have to buy one for each machine, but they will let you run 3 phase off of single phase 220. http://www.phase-a-matic.com/StaticDescription.htm Travers tools has them http://www.travers.com/regular-heavy-duty-static-phase-converters?Category=electrical%20equipment%20%26%20supplies:298251||converters:298257||static%20phase%20converters:298265||UserSearch=block%20id%2034363%20and%20class%20level3%20id%20298265

I know alot of guys run their lathes and mills off of them. I should of done that lol.

Chris

[SARK9]

One solution I have NOT tried (as yet) is to employ a variable frequency drive... You can get units that take single phase input and produce 3-phase output (PLUS the ability to do variable speeds on the motor) for about the same price as a static inverter alone. They are inexpensive, but ARE in the same price range as a new servo motor, which is the main reason I've never been tempted. Not recommending any particular brand as I have no experience with any of them, but do a quick search on "TECO variable frequency drives" and you should get links to other offerings as well. For sure your full-sized industrial 3PH motor is head and shoulders more serious than any of the inexpensive servos, but it does come with its own costs, like noise and power consumption.

-DC

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

In the long term it is cheaper to replace the motor.

I know everyone talks about using servo motors but good quality clutch motors are almost as controlable without the complications. I use high quality motors made in China by a Taiwanese manufacturer and they are brilliant - mind you, they cost as much as a basic servo motor!

[Trox]

You can use a frequency drive on a plain clutch AC motor. They are for AC motor only, you cannot use them for servo motors.

However, on position AC motor system its possible but not easy, because they have control boxes that has to be operated on the required power. I have used such drive on a 3 phase Efka variostop motor (old position system motor), then I wired the control box separately.

(I have 220 V single in my workshop)

The motor was 380 V, 3 phase and the control box 220 v single, power in is 380 V three phase (Europe). I converted the motor in to a 220 V single with the drive and disconnected the control box power from the motor and took it direct from the wall outlet instead. It worked well.

However, the easiest thing is to use an transformer.

By the way, I have one Pfaff post bed like the one in the picture for sale (with an Efka variostop), if somebody looking for one.

I echo what Greg said, make sure those Pfaff`s are complete in working order. Otherwise it will be expensive to get parts (example: you might have to pay 1000 $ for a needle plate alone).

Tor

[cardinal leather]

Thanks to all for the input on these Pfaff machines.

Both of them were purchased in a package deal. While the post machine will be of the most value to me the flat bed should have a place as well. A test with 3 layers of 6-7 oz, turning the wheels by hand shows nice clean penetration with out any grinding or hanging. moving parts are all clean and tight. When the weather breaks i.e. no more snow and cold. The power conversion can be worked out. The mechanic that serviced these units in the shoe factory is still working and agreed to service them when they are powered up. It will be awhile however I will post when they are done and in service. Any other comments on power conversions are welcome.