Fil Au Chinois Thread Problems

[Cletus2014]

I'm learning a little more every day and with practice, my stitching is improving nicely. So far I've mostly been doing very simple projects to get stitching practice, with the goal of working my way up to making high quality leather watch straps with fine, detailed stitching. In anticipation of this, I bought an expensive spool of Chinois Lin Cable 432 from Fine Leatherworking because I understand this is the "best" thread available. So far I absolutely hate it and can't manage anything even close to a decent stitch with this thread!

Until I got the fancy French thread, I've been using heavily waxed linen (or maybe polyester?) which is probably 3-ply or 4-ply and stitching around 6-7 spi. I've been happy with the results I've been getting, but I thought this to be a bit heavy for a watch strap. I was hoping the Chinois thread in 432 size, which is only one size away from their largest of 332, would be only very slightly smaller than I've been using and perfect for 9spi. I have a set of 9spi Chinese diamond pricking irons, (which are no Vergaz Blanchard), but don't seem too bad either, that I also bought in anticipation of using for watch straps.

Now that I've started working with the Chinois thread, I cannot for the life of me manage to get a straight, even stitch line. At 9 spi, which didn't seem all that fine to me, the teeniest tiniest little error in stitch alignment becomes a glaring flaw on the piece. Also, the Chinois thread seems almost brittle compared to the waxed linen I'm used to and doesn't seem to have the friction to "bite" and stay tight when the stitch is pulled. Not as bad as slippery nylon, but even after running through some beeswax it still takes some effort to keep it tight for the next stitch. I'm also stumped as to how I'm supposed to lock the backstitching when I come to the end of the stitch line. The waxed thread stays tight where you cut it, but this stuff looks like it will start to unravel if I just cut it without gluing it or something. How do you lock your backstitches with this thread?

Is this one of these things that are just difficult to do at first, but will reward my patience and practice to learn properly? I really thought I was getting the hang of saddle stitching until I tried this thread. Now I feel like I'm starting all over again.

Anyone have any comments, or comparison between the Chinois thread and ordinary waxed linen for saddle stitching? Maybe I would have better luck with the larger 332 at 9 spi? It appeared from the stitch size mock-up photo on Fine Leatherworking that 432 would be perfect for what I'm doing, but after trying it I'm not so sure.

[LTC]

have you seen this...

and this...

what type of awl are you using to make your holes after you use the pricking iron? how far are you pushing the awl through? are you creating the overhand knot as Nigel demonstrates in the second video?

if that thread tends to want to loosen on you after you pull it taut, maybe your holes are too big or the thread too small...

you could always try putting in an extra overhand knot, similar to how the surgeon's knot is made. it creates more tension so the knot will have less of a tendency to come undone while you're doing the next stitch...

Edited May 15, 2014 by LTC

[DavidL]

For this type of thread you to have be delicate w/ it.
Thicker threads are easier to use, however Chinois will give a more refined look.

From your description your awl may be too large, your leather may be difficult to use, pricking iron, your technique, only you will know really. A picture would be helpful..

In my opinion 532 at 9 SPI is too large. 532 at 7 SPI is fine and 432 at 7 SPI is standard for the European type leatherwork, where american work use larger thread in general, w/ exception to 12+ spi work on older items.

[9tpi]

To be honest i only use Fil Au Chinois. I refuse to drink the Tiger Thread Kool-aid that's being served up lately. Tiger thread (and other poly/nylon threads) tends to hide a lot of technique related mistakes. Like others have said in other threads consistency is KEY! How you hold the awl, how far you push it into the leather, the angle you push it through and even if being centered in your pricked hole is important and must be the same every time.

if any of these things change it will for sure create an uneven stitch and look funky.

i use 432 with 9spi iron and it works and looks good to me when working on bags and cases. 435 might be a little thick for a watch strap, however.

It's all relative to the leather thickness too. you wouldn't use 632/832 on a 8oz bridle leather brief case. so for a thin 3oz watch strap you may want to look into 632.

My $0.02

[Matt T]

Those chinese irons have a different shape to them; more like a diamond shape. If you're serious about this, you should get vergez or dixon. Also, at 9SPI I think 432 is a little large - I don't think that is your main problem though; it's probably your technique, as others have noted.

[Cletus2014]

I will post a few photos later, when I can get to some samples of my stitching with this thread. Everyone keeps saying the 432 at 9spi is too large, but it sure doesn't look that way to me, it looks too small, by a lot! I wonder if my pricking irons aren't what I think they are? Basically, I just did a stitch line and measured the stitches per inch with a ruler - it was 9, hence 9spi. I can't imagine there's another way to look at that?

Anyway, later on I'll post a couple pics of what I have so far and maybe that will shed some light on this. I'm sure it's just me not knowing what I'm doing, it's frustrating because I'm not getting anything like what I was expecting. Thanks for your comments.

[mrtreat32]

Im new to leather working but I ordered both tiger thread and fil au chinois.

After first using the tiger thread it does feel strange and seem a bit weird to work with. I have been going back and forth between the two brands and not sure what I prefer so far

I have a much harder time threading the fil au chinois and sometimes when I tie the knot on the end it seems to fray a bit. The tiger thread ties smooth every time. Both seem to have benefits and drawbacks. The fil au chinois is round so it doesn't twist and lay at weird angles like I sometimes get with the tiger thread and I never pierce it while sewing by accident which I have done multiple times with the Tiger.

On the other hand I like the way the tiger thread feels in my hands better when Im working with it.

I am also using the 432 at 9spi and I don't find that it looks too big.(Im mostly making wallets and accessories at the moment) But for a watch strap I would go thinner based on my preference. I could be wrong but I think sewing at a higher spi is harder..or at least that has been my experience so far. I started the first week doing mostly 7spi and after switching to 9spi it seems less forgiving to small errors. I would love to hear what others have to say as well.

[DavidL]

Cletus, try all the different size threads from other brands.

If you want professional results you should have the proper tools, the chinese pricking iron is your weakest link.

Work at it for a while and it should come together.

[Hi Im Joe]

Cletus, try all the different size threads from other brands.

If you want professional results you should have the proper tools, the chinese pricking iron is your weakest link.

Work at it for a while and it should come together.

I disagree with this. Diamond shaped holes are diamond shaped holes. There are a bunch of other ways to screw it up. So just saying its not the right tools doesn't really offer a solution.

[DavidL]

I agree with what your saying. However, a certain tool will limit your ability to do a certain task. For instance I use to ride a regular bicycleand now I enjoy riding on trails. The Bike worked great until I took it on the trails, so I invested in a proper mountain bike and it suited better. The same goes with the tools you use in leather working, especially hand stitching since it requires precision. The chinese pricking irons I seen are wide diamond shaped holes and european or british irons are thin slants. I never dealt with the chinese pricking irons, the japanese ones I have used and are very similar and the holes open up too large in my experience.

80 percent of the end results does come from skill. If you don't have a razer sharp awl, properly aligned pricking iron, it makes it more difficult, every tiny change in tools changes the stitch. Larger awls, create larger gaps in-between stitches and so on.

Ease of use for beginners is why I recommended him to upgrade certain tools. He wouldn't have to wonder if the reason he's not getting the proper stitch is because of the tools. That shouldn't be misunderstood as to buy the tool and the problem will be solved.

Edited May 16, 2014 by DavidL