Does The Swivel Knife Really Matter?

[LoyalNine]

Odd topic title I guess... But I just purchased a basic set of 7 or 8 craftools on eBay. It does not come with a swivel knife and I need to buy one. I was looking at my different options, new to old to beautifully expensive. Obviously I don't have a need for the latter but does the tool itself really matter or is it all about the blade? I see some old ones on eBay for $30 bucks and some others for $70. I have never even held a swivel knife and don't know if the tool really makes a difference or am I as well served by an old used craftool with new blade?

Also I see different sizes. Does that refer to the blade or the tool itself? Do many of you use only one or do you have a set with differing size blades?

[Ferg]

I have several, different size blades, straight and angled, different diameters of the barrel as well as lengths.

Buy the best you can afford and don't buy off e-bay.

Just my .02

Oh yes, the best definitely makes a difference in your work.

ferg

[King's X]

I suggest to my basic 7 carving class to try out as many as you can get your hands on to see what feels comfortable for you. I usually have all of the ones that Tandy Leather and allow each student try out each one. A couple of things to remember. You are looking for smooth and easy action in pushing, pulling and turning as you cut your lines. As for the blade, just remember that a sharp blade is a good blade. Now, I am not saying that all blades are equal because they are not! One of the most interesting things about new crafters is that somehow they believe that tools especially cutting tools are ready to go right out of the package. Mass produced tool are grounded and semi sharp to pass inspection, but they truly are not ready to cut. One of the examples that I do when I teach is to bust out new swivel knives out of the package and give my students a go at cutting leather. Then I introduce rouge and have the students cut leather again. As the students feel the leather cutting a bit easier, I explain to my student to imagine how their knives would cut if sharpen correctly? Then we introduce sharpening techniques that have worked for me.

People who have had some leather under their belts often ask me to suggest a swivel knife because they feel ready to upgrade. After asking a few questions, I usually suggest one simple upgrade so they can move up to their next level, a better blade. Price wise, the best blade upgrade that I can suggest is a Barry King blade at only $15 plus shipping, it is a great gamble rather then investing an arm and leg. Now, there are other blades that I would recommend like the Leatherwrangler's, Chuck Smith and Clay Miller, or Peter Main low angle blade if you are into figure carving items, but you are talking about a bit more investment.

In my opinion and I am far from an expert is that next to your pattern, your swivel knife cuts are second important step in creating beautiful art.

I hope this information helps you in making the right decision.

Good luck

[Northmount]

The top of the swivel knife should feel comfortable in to your finger. The cheap piece of flat curved steel is not comfortable as after a period of use, it feels like it's cutting into your fingers. I also find a larger diameter barrel is easier for me to use. Height should be adjustable, unless you know the height you need, and can buy that specific length. If you go into Tandy, look at the cheap versus more expensive and check how they feel in your hand. It's almost like trying on a glove, some obviously fit well, while others don't. And as above, need a good sharp blade, and strop often to keep it sharp to minimize drag while carving.

Different suppliers and grades of leather make a huge difference in how the knife cuts and how it feels while working with it. Better quality leather is a pleasure to carve. Tandy has cheap leather, and some nice import leather. If you are dealing with Tandy, get the nice stuff. You will enjoy it so much more.

Tom

[LoyalNine]

My goodness - Response to my question has been fantastic. It has answered my question for sure and then some!

Where I live is not exactly a hotbed of this sort of thing. I don't even know anyone that does leatherwork or if so where they could be found. I just don't have the opportunity to try these sorts of things out. I do like tools so I'll take the advice given on the BK blades. Ill prob order the whole knife from him as well as the price is manageable as lo g as I can slide it under the radar...

I am going to buy one to start. What size and style blade should be my first one. I can't afford 2 right now.

[King's X]

A couple of questions for you. what are you currently using? How does it feel for you cutting straight lines, curves and circles? This would probably answer your question for you. If not, I would (if you are comfortable) go with a 3/8" thin (for smaller projects) or regular width for medium to larger projects). Now, keep in mind, the 3/8" will take some getting used to especially if you are using an angle blade, but with lots of practice you will build your confidence and use it like a champ. If you are thinking of getting a BK swivel knife, but you cannot afford two of them.....consider a second blade especially if you are not sure. Good luck

[papaw]

I took the Paul Zalesak swivel class today and he says if you start with the straight blade and learn to use it, it will make useing angle blade easier and if you start with the angle it will be harder to pick up the points of carving with the straight blade harder. Also any long cuts with angle blade is harder than with the straight., just need to tilt the straight back farther. He is a pro and was using a 5/8 to do very small cuts. After watching him I tried my 3/8 straight blade and was shocked at how easy it was as I had used only the angle before. I have a BK 9/16 barrel and plan on going to 5/8 barrel soon because of my hands. the bigger the barrel the easier it is to control but the more you have to rotate it also, the smaller the barrel less control on some cuts but you also have to turn it lessin making the turns. That's what I learned today.

Edited June 1, 2014 by papaw

[LoyalNine]

Again thanks all for the input on this. I am currently not using a swivel knife at all that's why I was asking. it's all new to me. With the help of this thread (and the search function) I think I have decided on the BK 1/2" barrell with 3/8 flat blade. That seems to be a pretty standard size unless I am mistaken? I plan to order an extra blade as well. Should I get the 3/8 that comes with the knife in thick or thin?? And what should I get for blade #2?

I will mostly be practicing. Nothing too intricatee or huge to start off obviously.

[papaw]

call BK to order and he can talk about the second blade

[Chief31794]

I know this thread has matured and you got some great advice, I didn't see a plain answer to your question, "Does the Swivel Knife Really Matter", logically it does, if it didn't then Barry King and other tool makers wouldn't be able to sell swivel knives and all professional and amateur leathercrafters would be using Tandy basic swivel knives. Now, could Bob Parks carve beautifully with the basic swivel knife in the Tandy kit, absolutely, even the guys who work for Tandy Tony and George, use the higher end knives that Tandy sells (the Al Stohlman Professional Type). I would buy the best knife I could afford and learn to use it. It will last a lifetime, most people who start with the basic Tandy knife wind up buying a quality knife as some point. The roller bearings in the top are worth the difference in price alone in my opinion.

Just my $.02 worth,

Chief

[LoyalNine]

Ok so I ordered from BK and already got the shipping info! I got:

Swivel Knife

, Barrel Size: 1/2 in. , Blade Size: Straight 3/8 in. Thick $45.00 USD 1 $45.00 USD

Maul: Small

, Size: Taper 16 oz.

I opted to not overdo it and get what you folks and others on the forum have given for advice. I'll order another knife and blade after I get a feel of what I might need. I did learn from this that I am better to get quality stuff from the beginning with caution I need to not go overboard. I know the way I am and I'll try to use what I've got first.

This is a fantastic forum - the help and advice given is very helpful.

I should add I also picked up an older set of 8 craftools on eBay so I should hopefully be cutting my teeth on leather carving this week.

[papaw]

I think you will be happy with your choice the nice thing with the thick blade is it will open up your cut line and make tooling it easier. The opening of the cut is one reason you need the swivel knife and easier to follow your lines for cutting, something I should have said in my first post. Good luck and have fun!!

[LoyalNine]

I got my first set of tools in the mail today thanks to EBay! I spent $36.00

They say Craftool Co. With the following numbers 104, 113, 200, 231, 407, 433, 705, 710 if that makes any sense to you guys.

Edited June 2, 2014 by LoyalNine

[FlHobbyist]

Congrats! You are well on the way to entering the hobby!

[WyomingSlick]

I got my first set of tools in the mail today thanks to EBay! I spent $36.00

They say Craftool Co. With the following numbers 104, 113, 200, 231, 407, 433, 705, 710 if that makes any sense to you guys.

It makes perfect sense. According to the "Collectors Guide to Vintage Craftools" ...... it means that you bought Craftools that were made before Tandy acquired the company in the early 1960s and moved operations to Ft.Worth, Texas.. Before that happened, the tools were made in northern Mexico in the old city of Los Angeles, and are considered by all knowledgaable people to be superior tools to those Craftools made later. Generally speaking, Craftools that do not have USA on them are much better tools. ( Note- Some of the Craftools now being foreign made do not not say USA on them but they will have a prefix letter in front of the tool number - prefix letters were started in 1963 )

Yours look to be in excellent condition for 50+ year old tools. The beveler looks like the chrome plating has worn away some........but, that is a good sign that it must work well to have been used that much......and it still has plenty of walking miles in it.

I looked up the auction on eBay, and I am wondering why you went with that particular auction.

While scanning the completed auctions, it was kind of depressing to see all the ignorant people who have purchased the cheapo stamping tools made in China.

Incidentally, I totally disagree with the old boy, above, who advised never to buy on eBay. I have every Craftool shown in the pre 1963 catalogs (500+ of them) and the majority of them were found on eBay. I have also been able to buy Hackbarths, RBS, McMillens, Russells, and plenty of other collectable tools there......tools I would never have encountered otherwise.

When buying on eBay, the pictures, and the description are important. With good pictures, I can usually even differentiate Craftools made in the late 40's to early 50s from those made from 1955 to 1963. The term "vintage" means nothing on eBay. Sellers will add the word just to be included in the search parameters.

Right now, on eBay, it is a buyers market because a lot of people who bought their Craftools in the 1950s and 1960s are retiring, or have passed away, and their tools are on the market because their heirs have no interest in them. The most commonly found ones are going dirt cheap, around 3 bucks for bigger sets, and a bit more for common individual tools. ( The more uncommon, rarer, ones, will of course bring much more.....( I believe the most I have ever seen an individual Cratool bring was at over a 100 bucks for a 115 )

At $4.50/tool, you did very well....... because yours are in much better condition than a lot of them. Sadm but true......"some folks take care of their tools....some don't! "

If you are interested in a guide to more old Craftools, drop me a personal message with your email, and I will send you a copy.

[bruce johnson]

WyomingSlick,

You made me go look! I have a page of only preletter Craftool stamps for sale and another "Bargain Basement" page with lettered Craftool stamps on my website. I had to double check to see if I had a #115. No joy, but I was kind of excited for minute or two there. LOL,

Thanks,

- Bruce

[LoyalNine]

I looked up the auction on eBay, and I am wondering why you went with that particular auction.

I am very pleased to hear I did ok. I very easily could have been victim to my ignorance and picked up some of the less desirable stuff you speak of. I chose the auction only bacause it ended very soon and was in my budget. I knew from reading the basic needed tools were there ( at least I thought).

[shtoink]

I would buy the best knife I could afford and learn to use it. It will last a lifetime, most people who start with the basic Tandy knife wind up buying a quality knife as some point. The roller bearings in the top are worth the difference in price alone in my opinion.

I have to agree the Chief's statement.

I've been watching this thread and debating on whether or not I had anything of value to add that hadn't already been said. The only thing that I have not seen mentioned yet is the focus on preferences. There is a reason that there are a wide variety in length and barrel diameter, and it's because there's also a wide variety of preference and hand shape and size.

There are plenty of members in here that find they'll want a thinner barrel mated with a filigree blade for detail work but have a thicker barreled knife with a half inch blade for longer cuts that don't have a lot of curves. I'd even wager that some of these guys have several knives set up they way they want for each specific task in a carving project. It's all about personal preference and one knife with one blade is likely to not be up to the task of every job try to give it.

It'll likely become more obvious the further along you get into leather working that you find the desire to not have to keep adjusting your knife, swap out blades, or that the knife just doesn't feel right. This is especially true if you have issues with arthritis and can't deal with carving for extended periods of time.

[WyomingSlick]

WyomingSlick,

You made me go look! I have a page of only preletter Craftool stamps for sale and another "Bargain Basement" page with lettered Craftool stamps on my website. I had to double check to see if I had a #115. No joy, but I was kind of excited for minute or two there. LOL,

Thanks,

- Bruce

Sorry about that. Perhaps I should have mentioned also that the 115 in that auction was an unusual one in that it had 10 lobes instead of the usual 9, and thus was a very early (and super rare) 115 dating to around 1950 or before.

LOL There wouldn't have been one there in any case. If there had been, I would have bought it already. As it is, you have several tools listed there that are a steal at $10, and many others that are a very good price. Should mention that there is a figure carving matting tool that you have misidentified as a F698....that is actually an F898,

While I have your attention.......Have you ever encountered a patent stitching groover like the four Osbornes that you lead that section with....that does not have any markings on it at all ? I have one that is identical to those (sans markings), and was wondering if it has to be an Osborne since apparently these were patented......or if some other maker at some time pirated their design.

[bruce johnson]

WS,

Thanks for the heads up on the misID'd stamp. I'll pull it tonight and change that. I have had several unmarked Osborne (or seriously Osborne-like) tools. Knives most frequently but handled tools as well. Some may have the USA stamp in the wood, but no maker marks on the metal. I am not sure if these are subbed tools from Osborne's military contracts or just pushed through to meet the immediate needs at the time. I may have had or do have an unmarked Compass groover also. I don't remember off the top of my head.