Campbell Bosworth V Cobra

[Tomo]

Has anyone used a Campbell Bosworth Lockstitch sewing machine and a Cobra Class 4? I realise the machines are vastly different but I was wondering if anyone had any insight into pros and cons. I used a Cobra 4 a fair bit but I'm not totally convinced by them. I understand the benefit if a free arm etc but never used a Campbell Bosworth machine. Although I do like the needle awl combination.

I have a lot of experience on a lot of machines. I've been a saddler for over 40 years.

Best regards.

[DoubleC]

I've never used a needle and awl machine but I love my cobra 4. I know the campbells have a good rep though. Cheryl

[Wizcrafts]

The Campbell Randall Lockstitch machines lay down a stitch that cannot be matched by most normal walking foot class 441 or 205 machines. I have sew on an old Randall Lockstitch, at Freedman Harness (a long time ago) and owned two related Union Lockstitch machines, also needle and awl. The stitches are tighter, the underside cleaner and with a single right toe foot, you can place the awl and needle right up against the beginning of a raised surface.

The Campbell and Randall machines are very nice to multi-cord, left twist linen thread, run through liquid wax. Campbell sells their own white milky Lax Wax, while Puritan sells a clear waxy lube, called Ceroxylon, that closely resembles gum tragacanth.

One thing the needle and awl machines do better is sew with super heavy thread. I have sewn with #554 bonded nylon thread on a Union Lockstitch, with the proper needle and awl. The same machine was able to sew with #138 thread by changing the needle and awl.

Where these machines are at a disadvantage is in backtacking. Hooked eye needles tend to rip out existing stitches. They also rip apart nylon webbing. A Cobra or Cowboy 441 type machine is much cleaner when it comes to backtacking, or sewing webbing or Biothane. They also have reverse, which the needle and awl machines lack.

Finally, a Cobra class 4 and Cowboy CB4500 and Techsew 5100 all have a 16.5 inch cylinder arm, compared to 12 inches inside the body on the Union Lockstitch and only 9 inches inside a Campbell Randall Lockstitch machine.

A brand new Cowboy or Cobra sells for about 1/2 the cost of a factory rebuilt Campbell Randall. Most new users learn to operate them successfully in one or two days. A needle and awl machine has a much longer learning curve. I know this for a fact, having used both types.

[Tomo]

Hey thanks for that Wizcrafts. I was wondering why they didn't backstitch or sew webbing. It makes perfect sense if the needle is the 'hook' type.

I had to sew a knife sheath the other day. I was going to use the Cobra (my friends) as I was doing the job for a friend in his shop. When it came to sew the machine missed stitches when I was test sewing on some scrap. I didn't want to start the sheath and have trouble half way round so I decided to take it home and use my No.6. It came out absolutely fantastic.

The No.6 is set up with a M10 thread which I think is about a 270(??). I find the Cobra too inconsistent and moody, I can't rely on it. My friend doesn't use it because of these problems too.

Another friend has a Cobra 4 and uses his extensively. He has very few problems apart from the odd broken needle.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Just exactly like Wiz says. Absolutely loved my Randall. There's no way a closed needle machine can even come close to the stitch. And you can sew super close. But like Wiz says, much longer learning curve, plus you either have to be a mechanic to keep them sewing, or be on pretty good terms with one. I have a Cowboy 4500, and it's ok, but even my old Landis 1 makes a better looking stitch on some things.

[Wizcrafts]

I will share a secret tip used by advanced needle and awl machine sewers, like me. It is a method we use to sew in reverse without ratting the previous stitches.

1. Remove the thread from the looper.
2. Sew empty to poke two or three holes forward.
3. Spin the leather around 180 degrees
4. Place the thread back inside the looper
5. Hold the threads back and sew to the starting hole
6. Spin the work facing forward again
7. Carefully handwheel until the needle grabs the thread from the looper
8. Turn the leather slightly sideways so the barbed hook in the needle is facing outward a bit to the left.
9. Slowly lower the needle, ensuring it goes down facing away from the direct stitch line
10. Do this until you clear the last previous stitch.
11. Sew to the end
12. Repeat steps 1 - 9
13. End after two or three backwards stitches, making sure the hook faces away as you lower it.
14. Twist the starting and ending thread strands to the left in your fingers and cut them off close to the stitches.

This process involves wiggling the leather sideways to angle the needle's hook away. Sometimes I set the needle so its hook is already on a slight angle to the left when facing the front of the machine. If the looper is perfectly set, it will still feed the thread into the barb. That reduces the wiggling needed to backtack without ratting.

You can sew webbing on a needle and awl machine, if it between pieces of leather. OR, ..... use the smallest possible needle that just barely holds the thread. If the barb is full of thread there is little or no room for webbing to get caught as the needle descends. This technique also makes backtacking easier.

Note: using too small of a needle will cause the thread to get pulled off by previous stitches, or by dense leather or other material. I didn't use undersize needles all the time, just when absolutely needed.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Wizcrafts

[Kevin]

With the Campbell I had (Landis3 also), I just placed the awl right next to the previously stitched hole and it would follow into that hole but not cut the stitch. I always kept my awl at a 45 degree angle, maybe that has something to do with it, but I never had trouble cutting stitches. Notice however that most of the needle and awl talk is in the past tense, my Adler is so much faster and easier on the other people in the room.

[Wizcrafts]

... my Adler is so much faster and easier on the other people in the room.

I enjoyed watching people hold their hands over their ears when I ran my Union Lockstitch at 800 RPM! What a wonderful hurruction! It was like a thrashing machine in the house.

It wasn't the awl that cut the previous stitches on my ULS. It was the barbed needle, on the way back down.

[Tomo]

Hey thanks guys! Yes my No.6 makes a racket too on full throttle (800spm) too and often smoke is coming off the work when it gets going. You've def given me some things to consider.

[Kevin]

To me Union Lockstitch is a whole other story. I don't know how old mine is but it has a zone no. on the nametag and still looks like brand new. I know I haven't run a whole spool of thread through it in almost 30 years, someday we will have a reckoning.

[Red Cent]

Tomo, you are making a fast decision on the Cobra. Find out the set up. Needle and thread for one. Tension, oh the ubiquitous tension on the Cobra and the Cowboy 4500. Mine sews great (C4). Now I have never used anything else but it will sew up a holster that when folded is two layers of 8-9 and two layers of 5-6. Sometimes there will be an added welt of at least one 8-9. Broken needles are because it has been influenced on the way down and does not hit the hole. Allowed to go straight down, they will not break.

Your friend needs to a search here on the Cobra 4. I believe, with a little mechanical ability, he will get it doing what it was built to do. Sew through 7/8"s of leather without breaking a needle or skipping a stitch. Think little needle + big thread =s skipped stitches. Good luck.

[Tomo]

Thanks Red.

[tat2]

I have a Randall lock stitch and found it to be one of the easiest sewing machines ever made. Campbell Randall sell all the parts for it. I mostly sew 4 ply leather. Just needed the grind the feet down and the stitch plates to minimize the marking on the leather. Nylon thread is better, I also found the bonded nylon worked just as fine. You only need the adjust the tension more.. I found other machines like top walking foots offered huge marking with their wider feet, and made the finished product like awful... Back tacking is an issue, I was told to turn the hook needle slightly to the left, but you also have to adjust the thread bar to still pass by the hook to connect the thread. Wiz is right also hold the top and bottom thread as you are back tacking so the thread is not pulled by the hook needle.

I also use a horse stall matt to absorb the vibration as when you are sewing fast the Randall can be loud.

Best machine I ever used other than the Adler 205-64!

[Constabulary]

@ Wiz

I really like to read your posts and I´m impressed of your knowledge and experience and Its nice that you take the time to share it with other people! Not matter if one has the machines you are talking about or not - always worth reading your posts!!! Hats off!!!

Edited July 6, 2014 by Constabulary

[Wizcrafts]

@ Wiz

I really like to read your posts and I´m impressed of your knowledge and experience and Its nice that you take the time to share it with other people! Not matter if one has the machines you are talking about or not - always worth reading your posts!!! Hats off!!!

Aw shucks, thanks. :-)

[amuckart]

The No.6 is set up with a M10 thread which I think is about a 270(??). I find the Cobra too inconsistent and moody, I can't rely on it. My friend doesn't use it because of these problems too.

Another friend has a Cobra 4 and uses his extensively. He has very few problems apart from the odd broken needle.

Your No.6 will do pretty much anything in leather that a Cobra 4 will do unless you're running into the limits of the throat depth (in which case a Campbell Randall will be worse) or you need to sew right up at the edge of funny shaped things that can only be done on a cylinder arm machine.

I had a No.6 and I regret letting it go.

[Wizcrafts]

I kinda miss my Union Lockstitch machine. It had a specially made raised throat plate and narrow presser foot. I could sew very close to raised surfaces, as well as sewing huge, thick straps of all kinds. It had a 12" harp inside the body. I had modified it to sew 7/8 inch.

[Tomo]

Al, I do love the No.6 and have more experience with them than most. It irks me not being able to get a range of needles And yes you are right, the free arm has considerable advantages over the Pearson arm set up. I really like the way a Lock stitch machine sews and the way the stitches look top and bottom. I was wondering how functional or versatile the convex arm or bottom arm on a lockstitch machine is.

T.

[Singermania]

HI, I thought most needles were available for the Pearson no 6, I have most here though don't really sell them on, including roundpoint for repairs. I would think that Aaron Martin in Canada should have most sizes. Yes a long arm Pearson without the transverse shuttle setup like the Luberto would be nice too.