Buying Keestar Sewing Machine 441 Directly From China..

[Wizcrafts]

If Kevin is really unlucky, the Feds will confiscate his counterfeit Asian Scale playing guitar and send it to Langley for reverse engineering. It probably contains the Conficker Worm.

[Chief31794]

If Kevin is really unlucky, the Feds will confiscate his counterfeit Asian Scale playing guitar and send it to Langley for reverse engineering. It probably contains the Conficker Worm.

I haven't had that problem, but I play a US made 74 Martin D-28, I did have a representative from the Martin company try to confiscate it after they heard me play, when that didn't work they offered to buy me any of their competitors guitars if I'd just quit playing theirs in public. I'm not sure what all that was about! LOL.

Chief

[korokan]

Thanks guys for all your valuable and honest opinions. I did not even think that a 441 has to be adjusted to sew leather or other materials. I always thought that since it is a 441 , it will automatically sew harness since I presumed they are built to do so. It never occur to my mind that you will have to adjust the timing of this machine to sew your harness leather. I will have to be a mechanical engineer to understand those technicalities which I am not.

[korokan]

I bought a machine direct from China. It was a Hightex brand, which is what Cowboy machines are called outside of the US.

The short version is this: If you are buying this for use in a business, buy one from a local well-respected shop who will set it up and support & service it. Buying direct from China is a Bad Idea if you need the machine up, running, and making money in a specific timeframe.

For me, as a reasonably mechanically competent amateur who has torn down and re-built other machines, it was worthwhile. The cost was around half of what it would have cost me to get a machine from Cowboy or Cobra shipped to New Zealand, but if I were in the USA it is not something I would consider.

I bought via a reseller here, so as a private individual not a business I had the benefit of NZ's strong consumer protection laws if it went wrong, but even so It was almost 5 months before I had all the parts I needed. Because of screw-ups with the shipping I didn't get the correct motor and speed reducer with the machine and it took ages for them to arrive.

It took me a full day to clean the shipping grease off, assemble the stand and table and get the machine mounted and oiled. There were no instructions at all, and the assembly of the table was non-obvious (which is to say that the holes drilled in it matched neither the machine nor the stand, and I ended up building a new table).

After that it took me many hours to get the machine timed, feeding properly, sewing in the same holes in reverse that it did forwards, and so on.

I was lucky, my machine wasn't missing any bits, came with all the feet I needed, and didn't require a total teardown and rebuild like the Hightex 441 another NZer on this forum bought.

Even without any major things going wrong with my machine mechanically, I would have been completely screwed without the Juki 441 engineer's manual. Even with that it was tricky getting the machine set up because the timing marks the Juki manual references don't exist on my machine.

If you're comfortable with tearing down and re-building walking foot sewing machines and you know how to time them from scratch and you have the time and tools to do so, then getting a machine direct from China can work, but it's a gamble. You can't count on getting any kind of support from the factory, and as Wiz has pointed out getting the additional harness feet is expensive and they aren't guaranteed to fit the specific machine you end up with.

When you ssy ,it took hours to ge tthe machine times, are you stating that the machine come in untimed and that you have go inside the machine to mechanically change the timing?

[Wizcrafts]

When you ssy ,it took hours to ge tthe machine times, are you stating that the machine come in untimed and that you have go inside the machine to mechanically change the timing?

Having discussed this with some of our dealers, the answer is yes. 441 clones require several hours of dealer setup time before they sew and can be sold. They are not ready to use out of the box. They are not marketed to end buyers, but to competent dealers who understand the ins and outs of adjusting the hook, needle bar, presser feet, feed mechanism and lifter system. Buyers take it for granted that all the dealer has to do is unbox the parts and bolt them together. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

[korokan]

I posted this isue cause I saw the pricing on these machine way too cheap and nobody dared to buy directly from them in the US. Yet we all new that this are the same machine that we buy in the US locally. There could be tons of isues that goes with it why people dont buy directly from China. One reasons I knew is that one Prussia Company in China wont sell it to me directly out of respect to the American company Weaver. They instead refer me to Weaver.

But there are other Chinese Companies who would sell me directly . Thanks again for your opinions. Hope one of you guy scheck these companies in Alibaba.

[Wizcrafts]

I watched my current CB4500 being set up and adjusted. It involved doing things I never would have suspected needed to be done. I am grateful to the dealer, Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, for taking care of the legwork for me.

Another thing. My first servo motor quit after one week of use. This was the old push button kind. I placed one phone call to Bob Kovar and a new motor arrived the next business day. Try that on a direct from China machine.

Dealer support should not be taken for granted or ignored. If you need parts, accessories or advice and didn't buy from an authorized dealer, you better learn to speak Chinese and wait for the next slow boat from China to arrive and clear Customs.

And pray your guitar doesn't get hacked ;-)

[korokan]

Having discussed this with some of our dealers, the answer is yes. 441 clones require several hours of dealer setup time before they sew and can be sold. They are not ready to use out of the box. They are not marketed to end buyers, but to competent dealers who understand the ins and outs of adjusting the hook, needle bar, presser feet, feed mechanism and lifter system. Buyers take it for granted that all the dealer has to do is unbox the parts and bolt them together. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Why dont the dealer tell the company that market them to adjust it before they send to the US. This machine was designed for one function only to sew heavy duty thick leather. The reason it is marketed here is because for that one and only reason. Thatt is really hard to understnad why they would selll it not set for what it should be marketed for. If I order tons of machine from these people, I will demand it to set it right before I will recieve them. or before they make the delivery. Imagine how much money you spend just adjusting this thing before you sell them. It just dont sound right to me.

Dont these dealers ask for the samples of what the machine can do before they buy them. That is really a bad purchase f you still have to adjust the machine when these people from the factories can adjust the machine before they deliver them. That would be the last time I am gonna buy from them or would even not accept it.

[Wizcrafts]

Now you are beginning to Grok what our dealers go through on our behalf, to deliver an affordable leather sewing machine.

[amuckart]

When you ssy ,it took hours to ge tthe machine times, are you stating that the machine come in untimed and that you have go inside the machine to mechanically change the timing?

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Out of the box it had been assembled, but that's it. It wasn't timed and the feed was out of sync.