Need Advice On Buying A New Knife.

[zaynexpetty]

I have been having some trouble cutting round corners and circles out of leather. Right know I have a utility knife, which works good for cutting straight lines for the most part, and an x acto style knife, which I have been using for cutting corners. The x acto is too flimsy and tends to bend when I am cutting corners, making the cut at an angle, most of the time. I would like a knife that is that same style, but with a sturdier blade that wont bend.

Anyone have any suggestions?

I almost bought this knife, but decided I better ask for some advice before doing so:

http://usaknifemaker.com/industrial-knife-set-especially-designed-for-leather.html#.U785SajPmO0

Thanks,

Zayne

[papaw]

If you like the Xacto you may want to look at the #3 knife handle it has a heavier blade.

[J Hayes]

Really hard to beat a good round/head knife. I was cutting 8/9 veg with a utility hook blade with limited success, lots of sanding. Picked ud a Osborne new manufacture (not recommended unless you have time to shape and sharpen it) anyway I can cut tight corners both inside and outside. It has become that I cut pretty much right on with ease and drastically reduced sanding time on my holsters. Bruce Johnson usually has a few ready to work, and of course there are custom makes as well

[jfdavis58]

I have a couple curved blades-both are PITA. Stropping is a wrist ache and sharpening, well how many have a curved hone of any kind??? Well, as a matter of fact, I do. The cost is, well a factor.

What are you cutting? That will be the first question a custom maker will ask. Second will be "how much are you cutting?"

I've had four letter arraignments with a number of knives. Then I guess you could say I went all in and bought from a custom maker. Now I have three, all sharper than anything I've ever had, all delightful to use, all easy to maintain. http://www.leatherwranglers.com

[StrigaMort]

Before I got back into leather I did a lot of wood carving. I have several custom carvers. They have ergonomic handles and, naturally, very sharp blades of various design. I'm considering repurposing them to see how they act as leather cutting blades. A big part of me balks at the thought but they are just sitting there and were expensive. Some would make terrible knives,you can tell just by looking at them, but some may be excellent for the job.

I'll report back with my findings,but if you're interested, they are hand made from Deepwoods Ventures.

[Trox]

Hi Zayne,

I have the knife on your link and I do not like it, the blade is to thin/flex to much. When a knife flexes you will cut wrong (most of us anyway, I heard somebody likes it)

I mostly uses my round knifes cutting leather. However, when I cut around cardboard patterns I use clicker knife/pattern knife. Either my Blanchard L`indispensable (brass) or a modified Stubai wood carver knife. I bought this knife in a wood worker shop because it looked promising (right proportions). Nevertheless, it had a microbevel edge like you often find on modern pocket knifes and was useless on leather (for anything else too). I grinded of this microbevel and made a long bevel all over the blade wide (on both sides), polished it and it turned out to be great. Its stiff enough and sharp enough to be a great little clicking/ leather pattern knife. You can also use it in your draw gauge. Many of us makes our own knifes from High speed (HS or HSS and not Bi metal) hack saw and colt saw blades. You can grind them to be very hot without loosing the steels tempering, they makes very good blades.

Tor

[StrigaMort]

I was just looking at that brass handled knife last night. Looks nice.

I did a little test cutting with a couple of the carvers I mentioned before. The pic got oriented weird but the top knife in the pic did quite well around corners. The long straight bladed knife cut as well as a box cutter but a box cutter is far less expensive.

[zaynexpetty]

If you like the Xacto you may want to look at the #3 knife handle it has a heavier blade.

I'll have to check that out, thanks.

[zaynexpetty]

Hi Zayne,

I have the knife on your link and I do not like it, the blade is to thin/flex to much. When a knife flexes you will cut wrong (most of us anyway, I heard somebody likes it)

I mostly uses my round knifes cutting leather. However, when I cut around cardboard patterns I use clicker knife/pattern knife. Either my Blanchard L`indispensable (brass) or a modified Stubai wood carver knife. I bought this knife in a wood worker shop because it looked promising (right proportions). Nevertheless, it had a microbevel edge like you often find on modern pocket knifes and was useless on leather (for anything else too). I grinded of this microbevel and made a long bevel all over the blade wide (on both sides), polished it and it turned out to be great. Its stiff enough and sharp enough to be a great little clicking/ leather pattern knife. You can also use it in your draw gauge. Many of us makes our own knifes from High speed (HS or HSS and not Bi metal) hack saw and colt saw blades. You can grind them to be very hot without loosing the steels tempering, they makes very good blades.

Tor

Those look like they would work nice. I am realize that I might have to get some knives and do some modifying myself. Thank you for the input!

Before I got back into leather I did a lot of wood carving. I have several custom carvers. They have ergonomic handles and, naturally, very sharp blades of various design. I'm considering repurposing them to see how they act as leather cutting blades. A big part of me balks at the thought but they are just sitting there and were expensive. Some would make terrible knives,you can tell just by looking at them, but some may be excellent for the job.

I'll report back with my findings,but if you're interested, they are hand made from Deepwoods Ventures.

Yes, please do let me know how that turns out. I have thought about going that route as well as I have some wood carving knives.

Really hard to beat a good round/head knife. I was cutting 8/9 veg with a utility hook blade with limited success, lots of sanding. Picked ud a Osborne new manufacture (not recommended unless you have time to shape and sharpen it) anyway I can cut tight corners both inside and outside. It has become that I cut pretty much right on with ease and drastically reduced sanding time on my holsters. Bruce Johnson usually has a few ready to work, and of course there are custom makes as well

I really need to get a nice head knife. I keep seeing them used in most of the videos I watch. Thanks for the input.

[Trox]

Hi StrigaMort,

The Blanchard brass pattern knife is a very good knife with a stiff changeable blades, its has a long edge on the left side of the blade to cut against the pattern. Many prefer to make them straight on the left side and have the bevel on the right side only. However, it works well out of the box after some polishing of course. Its now also available in the USA http://www.fineleatherworking.com/leather-tools/indispensable-knife

Hi Zayne

Well, its important to have a good hard cutting board too, I use a HD polyethylene board same as the clicking machine board (but a bit softer). You could try the same as they use in a butchers shop too. To soft a board and the knife will cut to deep in to it and you will make mistakes. Your knife blade might brake off too. The utility knifes flexes to much and you will not be able to cut out a piece without stopping (stopping is a mistake made).

You must first make your self an leather stropping board to polish up your knifes, then you will get them even sharper than the utility blades (you can strop them too). You can also buy them, buy your self an aggressive polishing paste to apply on the board (its a must have). I never have to sharpen up any of my knife more than once, I just polishing them on the board before use. (Read up in the pinned topics about it).

Then get your self a good round knife, cut the handle to fit in your hand. Then you have a knife that will do all the cuts you ever need (without cutting around cardboard patterns that is). You can skive with it, do long rolling straight cuts and cut true sharp corners on the raised tips.

Buy a good round knife.

You have the choice of an very expensive new custom made knife or an 100 years old used knife. Anything else will not be good enough. My advice will be a good 4 to 5 " CS Osborn with a Newark stamp on it, rosewood and brass handle (thats the cheapest option too right now). You might find a good one on EBay, but then you should really know what you should look out for. My advice is ; contact Bruce Johnson (the moderator here) http://brucejohnsonleather.com/content/index.php/leather_tools_for_sale/knives-and-other-handled-cutting-tools/ and by one of his good old refurbished knifes. You will get them ready to cut, with some advices on the fly too.

Any of these nice oldies will out preform most of the other knifes available today. I have about 20 different round knifes in my collection right now, and some of the best of them are these old CS Osborne Newark stamped ones. (CS. Osborne & Co Newark stamped knifes are minimum 100 years old hand made knifes)

Bruce's knifes are very well sharpen/polished and will cut straight from the box. Buying from Ebay you have to sharpen up/clean it up your self and that is a skills it takes time to master.

Al Stholmans book of Leathercraft tools is a very good investment too (inexpensive paperback with nice illustrations), it shows how to use and maintain all the leather tools available. Then you will learn from the master the right way.

Just my two cents

Good luck

Tor

[Tannin]

How about a clicking/clicker's knife with a concave curved blade (that's what I use currently or a Stanley 199 knife with similar blade)? Either long blade or short blade variety:

http://www.kingsmerecrafts.com/

http://www.wrtcleather.com

[A cheap, plastic handled, long blade clicking knife might be the best option (~£12 inc. blade & shipping if you shop around): I have a short blade walnut handled version but the long blade one seems like better value, assuming that you can just keep sharpening it. Note: The short blade variety will not take a long blades. Wooden handles are prone to splitting - so plastic might offer some advantage in that regard. ]

Here is one in use cutting curves: http://ritsandrits.blogspot.co.uk/p/will-show-how-we-create-bear-leather.html

Edited July 31, 2014 by Tannin

[StrigaMort]

Thanks for showing that tannin. I have a very similar knife for wood carving, but I figured the recurve blade would be useless. I've got a couple of head knives coming by I see no reason to limit myself.

[Turn n Burn]

I use the re-curve blade for hair and feather cuts pierce with the point and pull back gives a thick to thin taper in the cut that is easy to control. For tight curves I use my swivel knife and cut the rest out with a scalpel or the re-curve blade.

[Tannin]

Thanks for showing that tannin. I have a very similar knife for wood carving, but I figured the recurve blade would be useless. I've got a couple of head knives coming by I see no reason to limit myself.

I hadn't thought of using them for woodcarving - any good for incising/cutting curves? The hook seems to work very well cutting leather - unsurprising, as the clicking knife is a traditional leather working tool for cutting patterns out of leather. You can still get them with fixed blades too, like this:

http://www.rushdenheritage.co.uk/shoetrade/shoemakingclicking.html

Cutting curves is often challenging though, I find lifting the handle helps (perhaps by presenting a thinner, more curved & pointed tip?). However, I too have just ordered a round knife but more out of curiosity than necessity. I would think the round knife might be more suitable for bigger projects and longer cuts.

BTW I started off using some thick Sheffield-made single-ended curved blades (bought v. cheaply on eBay) for my vintage 199 Stanley knife, they work very well and can be sharpened. They have a similar shape & thickness to the Tandy industrial knife shown above. However, currently, the clicking knife does seem to cut a little better for some reason - perhaps a little narrower/sharper/stiffer/shallower bevel angle? I think the Stanley knife blades might improve with use/wear though (TBC).

Edited August 1, 2014 by Tannin

[Trox]

Hi Tannin, StrigaMort showed you a proper clicking knife above. I mostly use one of my round knifes for cutting leather, I like a stiff blade and I use the old stocks of knifes. However, when I cut around a cardboard pattern or such, I use a Blanchard Indispensable knife. It has a very thin, yet stiff blade with a long bevel edge on the left side; for riding along the cardboard pattern. I have the knife in your picture, but I find the blade to thin and flexible for my use. Yet its a fine utility knife, you can alter the handle and make it flat on two sides so it do not roll of the bench. You can also make your own blades for it out of HSS hacksaw blades. It work well as is too and its a upgrade from a Stanly knife. Make sure you have a good cutting surface too, its as important as a good knife. I use HD Polyethylene, same as the clicking board (but a bit softer) and butcher tops. You can buy the Blanchard here if you are based in the USA http://www.fineleatherworking.com/indispensable-knife or by Vergez Blanchard http://www.vergez-blanchard.fr/boutique/liste_produits.cfm?type=42&code_lg=lg_fr&num=2 There are other French shops who sells it without a required minimum buy as with Blanchard, Google is your friend.

Good luck

Tor

[Tannin]

Hi Tannin, StrigaMort showed you a proper clicking knife above....

Hi Tor - oh yes, I see it now, in his original link (I wondered where I'd open that link from) - that is exactly the same clicking knife that I have too. It works very well but I would actually suggest getting a different one, one of the more traditional ones that can take the longer blades (old hacksaw blades if you like, as you suggest - although they might be thinner), they are also about half the price here. Less importantly, I would also suggest getting one with a plastic handle, if you can find one - I have only seen a picture of one such. Good idea about flattening the handle - I've already done that to my awls hadn't thought about doing it to the clicking knife.

Yes those Blanchard Indispensable knives look very good - actually most of their tools look wonderful but many (e.g. their highly polished pricking irons & elaborate pricking wheels) are very expensive here (add 20% VAT, etc.) although I guess relatively less so for a Norwegian (watched a documentary on Norway recently - strong currency, sovereign wealth fund - well done!). The English-made tools are not cheap either but they are typically less than half the price of the Blanchard tools - albeit a little less refined/polished (I figure my tools improve with use). Actually I have a small-bladed wood carving knife with a similarly shaped blade to the Blanchard knife, made by Ben Orford(whose wife is an accomplished leather crafter) which I could use - but I think I will stick with the clicking knife for now.

For a cutting surface I use one of those green "self-healing" cutting mat, miraculous, I have an A4 size one but just ordered a larger A2 one:

A2 Self-healing cutting board

The Scandinavians make some wonderful knives & axes - we mostly see Swedish made things by Gransfors Bruks, Hans Karlsson, Whetterlings, Mora/Frost, Halftors, etc. but I'm aware of similar tools - old & new - coming from Finland (Martinni?) and Norway. Are there any good traditional or modern Scandinavian leather working tools (e.g. for reindeer hides)?

[Bobbin]

Reviving this old thread because I've been researching some of the knives mentioned here. I'm looking to get a core set of very high quality, essential knives that are workhorses and require minimal upkeep beyond stropping.

So far I have a few in mind:

- Clicker knife/ detail knife for cutting around patterns. l'indispensable handle w/ custom blades made by Buzzard Brain leather. Made of high carbon O1 steel to a hardness of RC62. Can be custom sharpened.

- Round knife/head knife from Knip Knives. Probably the French one. Long straight cuts, curves, some skiving. Multiple uses.

- Skiving knife from Knip or Chartermade

This seems like a good core set. But I'm wondering--where does a rotary Olfa cutter fit in? I know many use these, and they seem excellent for straight cuts as well, and especially for thin leathers.

Oh, and I'm mostly working with thinner leathers for fine work--wallets, bags, etc up to the occasional thick belt.

Thoughts? Alternatives? Did I miss an essential? Thanks!

[billybopp]

Rotary knives work very well for really stretchy leathers such as deer, elk, lamb, etc.   Also good for thin leathers, although other knives do OK on thin as well.

[jfdavis58]

Perhaps, instead of a core set, you should spend some time researching knife steels.  And then settle on one knife learning to use it for everything.  Jumping from tool to tool is an ineffective way to spend your money or improve your skill-set.  One mans opinion.

[Art]

There are two methods:

Buy a knife when you need a knife, you will have fewer very used knives.

Buy a knife when you see a knife, you are a collector (join the club), you use the same knives you use if you follow method one, but if you get one dull or break or drop it, oh do you have backup.

Or.........Buy a Utility knife and Irwin Bi-Metal (Blue) blades and a couple of scalpel handles and some blades from ebay, then when you really need something different, go for it.

The only thing that is really good about a head/round knife is seeing the cutting line.

Art

 

[Bobbin]

2 hours ago, billybopp said:

Rotary knives work very well for really stretchy leathers such as deer, elk, lamb, etc.   Also good for thin leathers, although other knives do OK on thin as well.

That makes sense. Perhaps I'll hold off on a rotary for now then until I find I use a lot of stretchy/thin leathers that the other's don't handle well. Probably goatskin & linings for me.

2 hours ago, jfdavis58 said:

Perhaps, instead of a core set, you should spend some time researching knife steels.  And then settle on one knife learning to use it for everything.  Jumping from tool to tool is an ineffective way to spend your money or improve your skill-set.  One mans opinion.

Fair enough. I do respect your opinion. It's funny, because I thought I was being minimal by looking for a core of "only" 3 knives  I have spent time researching steels for cutting. I do have a bit of a different philosophy though. I'm doing this because I like learning, and because I think it's fun. Part of learning for me is trying things. Even if I find a knife totally useless, that's valuable learning for me for a pretty small price (if I trashed the knife). And an even smaller price of learning if I sell it to a forum member here. This helps me learn about different types of steel, too. In practice rather than just reading about it.

I do agree that to improve my skill set in any single knife, I'll need to spend a lot of hours of practice.

1 hour ago, Art said:

There are two methods:

Buy a knife when you need a knife, you will have fewer very used knives.

Buy a knife when you see a knife, you are a collector (join the club), you use the same knives you use if you follow method one, but if you get one dull or break or drop it, oh do you have backup.

Or.........Buy a Utility knife and Irwin Bi-Metal (Blue) blades and a couple of scalpel handles and some blades from ebay, then when you really need something different, go for it.

The only thing that is really good about a head/round knife is seeing the cutting line.

Art

 

Sounds like great advice. I don't expect I'll become a collector (yet). Thanks for the tip on the utility knife and blades. I actually have one but did not know about the Bi-Metal (Blue) blades. This is another attractive option for me as well, really sidestepping the sharpening issue. The blades are so cheap I can just replace as needed.

It sounds like all I really "need" is some sort of detail knife--either a utility knife. + maybe scalpels, or something like the Blanchard w/ custom blade above. I would then be doing a lot of pull cuts along a pattern, corner template, or ruler--probably the majority of what I'll be doing.

I feel like the utility knives/scalpels are a no brainer. Even if I don't end up using them much for leather, I still have general purpose knives for many other uses. I think I'll pick some of these up, even if I do opt for a Blanchard detail knife.

The head/round knife does seem more optional for now, unless I wanted to do a lot of curvy push cuts along a line without a guide.

I'll still need a skiving knife for thinning edges, bringing it to a core set of 2 to start.

[MADMAX22]

If your doing long straight runs unguided a round/head knife IMHO is the way to go. I have a few and a couple are larger (5-7") and a couple are pretty small (3"). The larger ones I use for straight longer runs and skivving edges. The smaller and inbetween size I do the finer detail turns and what not. If I was doing filigree I would have some scalpel type knives. 

The thing with the head knives are being able to sharpen them properly or however works for you. I like the fact that I can cut out a bunch of stuff, flip to the other side cut out a bunch more stuff, then strop it and be ready to go again. 

Personally I rarely cut along a straight edge and thus the box cutter type blades give me issues with wanting to wander while I cut. I personally can keep the head knife on a marked line pretty easily. 

[Bobbin]

So in addition to utility blades, which I already use, I'll get a variety of scalpels. This is an inexpensive way to try many different blade shapes to see what works best in different situations. Perhaps from there, I can get a custom knife in the shape I like, if I want something less bendy or just better looking for photographs

I'm looking at Swann Morton scalpels. I think most folks here use the surgical ones with 10A, 11, 12, etc blades.

They also have ACM handles & blades, which are thicker and less bendy. This is their craft blade line. I saw a couple video reviews (review one, review two) and these seem like these are almost identical to x-acto handles & blades.

And they have some Heavy Duty Craft options--the SM handles & blades. It looks like some are selling them as leather craft knives. I imagine these are closer to utility blades, but with more blade shape options.

Question #1 Anyone familiar with these Swann Morton craft blades? In the US, Cincinnati Surgical / CN Arts & Crafts has them for good prices, including kits. The ACM kit has one of everything, which would be a nice introduction.

Question #2 is for those who use a curved detail knife. I see some of you (like @Art) use this as an alternate to a clicker knife (for example the Knipschield curved detail knife). Can you comment on why you like this knife, pros & cons? I imagine the curved shape allows for following patterns with curves & straight edges, and possibly allows one to see better under the blade when pulling. I have a Henckels kitchen knife that looks very similar and it gets used daily. I figure, a nice, traditional looking knife like this can always be put on kitchen duty if it doesn't turn out to be a favorite for leather work.

[Art]

I use scalpels a lot, I have so many knives that I am firmly in the collector category.  That being said, I'll just go by the knives out on the bench or within easy grasp.  I have two Swann Morton #3 retractable holders (they have newer ones now that I don't like as much) with 10A and 11 blades, these are used a lot for smaller trimming and even some cutout.  I also have a 22 blade, which is just a big 10, with a bigger #4 handle.  Of course, sometimes the 22 doesn't hack it and I use #60 and even a PM40 which is kind of a honking big 10.  I think the #60 uses a #8 handle and the PM40 has a handle unique to it.  These pretty much cover most of the cutting, and the blades are replaceable and fairly inexpensive.  The difference in Swann Morton blades and Indian etc. blades is that the SM blades stay sharper longer.  Just my experience.  Blades can be resharpened and stropped, to what I might call varying degrees of success.  Get a Needle Holder (suture needle holder) to hold blades when changing them.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0008F6GZ0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

While these are great for changing blades, they are a little better than ok for holding sutures, but then again, so are needle nose pliers.

You can get pretty deep in scalpels for less than $100 which is pretty economical by a long shot, and you can try out some of the exotic blade designs on the cheap.

On top is big daddy, a PM 40 Swann Morton handle and blade.

Next down is Swann Morton #60 with a #8 Handle.

Third from Top is a #24 blade on an after market #4 Handle.  These big handles are cheap and feel good in the hand.  You can also find them in #3.

Next down is a Swann Morton retractable #3 sporting a #11 blade.  The newer models are a little clunkier and feel cheaper but still work fine.

Last down, a bare #3 handle from all over eBay with varying quality, this is NOT a Swann Morton but still works fine.

On the right are a pair of Mayo Hegar Straight Needle Holders great for changing blades.  Grab blades by the spine with the edge away from you.

On the left is a Swann Morton Retractable Craft Knife.  In my opinion, stiffer but not as sharp, not nearly as sharp as a SM scalpel.  The handle is not well cast and kind of clunky.

Quarter for size comparison.

 

Art

[Art]

Knives, not the scalpel kind.

As I have said, there are a few knives I have on or near the bench.

So, the knife on the left and the one at the bottom are Bob Dozier, Arkansas.  Obviously these get used a lot, because they cut so damned well and fit me perfectly.  I have another Dozier that son uses and for all intents and purposes is his.  He could of had whatever knife I had, but he picked Dozier.  

The two knives at the top are Bill Buchman knives on a pattern of the two knives used by Verlane Desgrange.  You had to mention that Verlane told you to go to Bill to get him to make one or both for you.  These are the 2 perfect head knives, one on board and the little one off board; they are meant to be palmed.  Unfortunately, both Verlane and Bill have passed, they were great folks.  Bill liked to talk with me as I always called him when he was cutting the grass.  A lot of what I know about leatherwork I learned from Verlane.

The next knife is a Curved Detail (read clicker) knife that Terry Knipschield makes.  I use this a lot on thicker leather and I'm happy with it.

The next is a changeable blade clicker knife of the more conventional design.  This gets used a lot for patterning thinner leathers.  The blue handle one is better for me than the wooden handle one, I have both, I use the blue one, different strokes.

The next knife is not the only skiving knife I own, it is practically the only one I use.  It is a Robert Beard model and it just works perfectly.  This is a right hand, I have both right and left because I am quite ambidextrous with tools.  If you can get Bob to make one of these for you, more power to you.  Once you go Black, you'll never go back!  I have a Knipschield skiver that works great also, but it is much heavier than the BB knife so  it doesn't get used much.

 

This is a Terry Knipschield Bevel Point Utility type knife which I have two of.  I misplaced one and got so frustrated, I bought another.  Terry got a new one to me quickly, but before it arrived, yep, found it.  These can be used for pretty much anything and on my bench they do.  These come wickedly sharp and stay that way depending on use.  I've never had the opportunity to use Terry's head knives so I can't opine on them, but his smaller knives are just fantastic.  When I say these come sharp, please keep a little crazy glue or NewSkin and Bandaids handy.

Art