Who's Who In Saddle Trees? First Saddle?

[Slickhorn]

I'm sure this gets asked on here a lot, but I'm having difficulty finding it for some reason through the search function.

I'm looking to build my first saddle, and frankly, since I've joined here, I think the things I knew about "good saddles" has gone out the window. I've spent my entire adult life riding in trophy saddles, naturally with varied quality, but typically at the lower end of the spectrum in the grand scheme of things. My goal here is not a fantasy to get rich building saddles, or to become a renowned maker. My intent, which I'll admit is a bit romanticized, is to never need to buy a saddle in my adult life. Now that I'm not competing as much, my likelihood to win saddles is dwindling, and I'd like to sustain those which I've won thus far (I suppose I can go back to team roping).

So please help me out with my thought process, and also provide a bit of direction to help me pick my tree-maker for my first saddle.

Before I came to this site, I had intended to buy a Corriente or Billy Cook tree this fall and work on the build during the slow times this winter. Naturally, I recognize what the Corriente tree is, he11, their wade has an aluminum horn... BUT, they're cheap enough that if I botch the first one in some way, I don't have to feel too bad about ruining the tree.

In looking around here, it seems that Rod and Denise are THE place to get a tree, but it also seems it's also a long wait list to get one from them right now. Let alone I understand the price is pretty high. The only other name I've seen on here is Glenn Christman, but haven't been able to find a site or contact info for him?

Is there anyone else in the game? Is there anyone else that puts out a solid tree that's somewhere in the middle of that spread? When I google "saddle tree makers" I get folks that I have heard of like Steele, Ghormley, Swanke, Frecker, Miller... But I'm never necessarily one to trust what I simply hear, as most folks LOVE the saddle they're on, even if they don't really know who made it or whether it's good or not. And of course it's hard to tell anything about a tree just in photographs - hard for me at least.

My fear with going with a $700 tree is that I'm going to screw it up in some way, so I'm tempted to buy a cheaper tree like the Corriente to "learn on," maybe even build upon twice, or build a couple on cheaper trees before I spend the money on a proper tree from a better maker?

My nature would be to build the tree myself, but to be honest, despite my woodworking background, I'm not confident in my ability to pull one out of thin air. Plus, I don't have access to a bandsaw with a deep enough throat or cut height to go after something that large.

I know you get what you pay for in things like this, but I can also see a bit of value in buying a lower end tree and lower grade leather to crank out a "test run" or two, or 4. I can always turn that into my breaking saddle such that I don't have to feel as bad when they try to rub it off on the fence. Then the second, third, or fourth saddle could be the "real deal".

So... Thoughts on my way of thinking? Advice on other tree makers at any part of the spectrum, good to go with or ones to stay away from? Comments on Corriente or Billy Cook's cheaper trees?

[kseidel]

Unless you want to get into saddlemaking, and extensive leather work, you would be ahead financially to pick a saddlemaker and buy a professionally made saddle that will last the rest of your life without problems. If you just want to build your own, maybe check out a school that will help you build your own without the investment in tools and equipment.

To answer your question about treemakers, try Bowden or Timberline for better made and more affordable trees. Both are acceptable quality for long term use, and much less expensive than handmade trees.

[Slickhorn]

I guess I could point out that I have been "dabbling" in leatherwork for 20yrs and picked up a bit of kit along the way to do saddle repairs, gradually getting more extensive as I went along. Whether it's accurate or not, at least according to tools shown in the Stohlman, Grant, and Jones books I've picked up to reference for saddle repairs, I have all of the tools I need to at least put one together. Maybe it'd turn into a profession as I get older, but I have a lot of irons in the fire these days, so I can't picture putting even 10-20hrs a week consistently into saddlemaking for a while. My wife gets on me all the time because I have so much in my leatherworking tools and machines, but don't put them to good enough use.

I'd like to attend a school, as I figure that's one of the best options for me to get one built, I just haven't found the right timing for the right school that fits into my travel. Hopefully that'll be in the cards in the next couple of years.

But until then, I figure I'm not out much to try my hand at a couple. I'm a bit of a perpetual DIY'er, so I'm less worried about the financial sense than I am about ruining a good tree as I'm trying to figure it out.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Slickhorn

[GrampaJoel]

I've got a timberline tree on my bench right now. I think it only took about 9-10 weeks to get once it was ordered and paid for.

It's not a top of the line tree, but it only cost $319.00. It's appears to be built correctly, but there are things I dont like about it. The saddle will be made for a person that can't afford a high quality expensive saddle. But i like this person and as long as I build a safe saddle it doesn't have to be built of perfect first rate materials.

Some folks just can't afford a professional high quality tree to have a saddle built on. (To tell the truth I think it is easier on the builder if the tree is high quality.) So, I try to help where I can. Some trees like timberline are just fine. But the saddle maker has to be ready to make a few adjustments occasionally.

Now, buying a saddle tree and leather does not a saddle make. There are many tools and supplies that are needed also. Some specialized tools help make a good saddle,,,Or make making the saddle easier.

For all the money I have invested into saddle building equipment and supplies, I could have had Keith make a fancy saddle for me.

So if you do as Keith recommends, you might be better off in the long run. Some schools guarantee you will have a saddle when you finish.

I've seen posters here that went to a saddle building school and ended up with a pretty nice saddle.

Just my thoughts.

Joel

Edited October 10, 2014 by GrampaJoel

[oltoot]

Building good saddles is quite a bit harder than falling off of a log. Some of the schools are a good look and start but remember you pretty much get what you pay for. You're well advised not to tackle tree making on your own. Your problems only start with the bandsaw. After getting the wood base comes the rawhide cover and that is an art in and of itself. The newer synthetic covers (wide variety) only produce marginally acceptable results after a lot a of tool and materiel mastery.

With regard to cheap trees I and, I bet many others are too, am of the opinion that no matter how pretty you paint an outhouse, it still stinks.

Then consider the horses. I have some years as a farrier and have traced more than a few lameness issues, including grade 1 or 2 clubfoot, back to ill fitting, ill made saddles.

All that said, my tree maker of choice, I would classify as right up there with high end quality but high middle of the road for price: AND tree makers can be a lot like wives, your own is just right for you but I wouldn't have her (theoretical, not personal)

Quality Manufacturing of Monticello, Utah. On top pf being good, they're good people to work with, though like most of us who have aged, we have developed a crust of grouch. But their's, if you even sense it, is real thin.

But, if you must, go forth and do good things!

[Goldshot Ron]

I've used Timberline and Bowden, and feel that they are acceptably made. Sunny Felkins I've heard makes well made trees in the mid-priced trees. You will see Billy Cook trees on Ebay, and I question the quality of these trees and if they are actually Billy Cook made trees. Also, I recommend not buying any trees, no matter who may have made them off of Ebay. I've purchased a few just to have trees to try on horses to determine fit and size; not one of them would I use to build a saddle (all junk).

I basically build saddles and repair tack as a hobby. But, for me it has become more of a creative outlet. Unlike oil painting or woodworking, I can throw one of my saddles on my horse and ride off into the sunset. Also, if you get into tooling leather, heck, you'll have more money spent on stamps, swivel knives, and mauls than most of your saddle making tools.

Ron

[rktaylor]

Slickhorn,

Building saddles is a new hobby (one built: 2 and 3 currently under construction) for me so take this for what it cost you. I do not have a lot of experience repairing saddles either, but I am pretty good with my hands and like to build things. A good saddle school was not feasible for me. I already have a job and just couldn't justify the time away. So I decided to learn by doing.

I think your concept of building a breaking saddle as your first one is good. However, I would not build it out of cheap materials because you expect it to be rough. My first saddle was built on a Batie tree, because it was economical and I really didn't know any better. It will be on a rack as soon as my other one is done. If I can sell my new one, then I will ride it until I get another one built.

I am currently working on Bowden (about $275 +shipping) and Quality (about $450 delivered) trees. The Bowden is far and away better than the Batie and the Quality is better than the Bowden (you get what you pay for). I would like to see a Timberline to determine where I would place it relative to these two. I would also echo the comments about a higher quality tree being easier to build on. I think the Quality tree has a better, smoother finish. Blocking the skirts was easier on this tree as well, but that might just be a difference in the trees not the manufacturer.

You're going to have $700-800 in other material (if you don't mess anything up), why try to save $100 or so on a tree?

Maybe I should tell my wife how much I have invested in tools so she won't complain when I buy leather. It's probably best that she doesn't know.

Keep us posted on the progress,

Randy

[oltoot]

Another 2 bits on breaking saddles on the cheap. Unless you mean a kack for colts to wear around before you get on them with something better, remember that this is all a strange new world for a colt and most of them buck or do stupid things cause they're scared or hurting rather than because they are mean or they have been waiting for a chance to get back at you for putting them through this routine ( they don't generally think that complexly, anyway) so an ill fitting saddle, when pushed down with the weight of a rider will just increase the chance of making that first experience a bad one and building a hard to start to overcome. Long story short, don't do it! In fact, take every possible measure to be sure that a "colt saddle" has every chance of making the first experience as comfortable as possible. AND experienced farriers can tell you that many lameness issues that develop after you start riding a young horse can be traced back to "cheap" saddles or even expensive saddles on cheap trees. Go forth and do good things!

[rdl123]

Hello Slickhorn,

I have been through this myself. Last fall I started my first saddle and am now happily using it. I have used the saddle pretty hard. Pasture roping bulls, mother cows and calves and lots of long rides. I spent 12 hours straight in it yesterday. It is on a timberline tree and it hasn't registered any complaints. I am happy with the saddle. It fits me and fits most of the horses I ride very well. That said it is plain, and is definitely not up to professional makers standards.

I have a thread on this forum showing my progress on this saddle.

That being said I completely agree with Keith Seidel. Building a saddle is expensive if you want to get half decent results, You will need a lot of pricey little tools, leather, and dvd's to guide you. I'll bet you'll burn through 4 sides of Hermann Oak what with mistakes / learning curve to get one saddle, cinch, breast collar etc.

For a starter tree - Bear in mind you will have a ton of time into this first saddle...in my mind that means buy the best tree you can afford. If it meant delaying the project one year to get a better tree id say do it - Gives extra time to study and think out things. If I was doing a first time saddle again i'd buy the best hand made tree money can buy.

Anyhow, I could have bought a base price saddle from a well known maker for what I have in mine.

However all in all I can say I am happy to have made one saddle and will be making two more this winter.

Saddle making is extremely satisfying. I don't find it as fun as riding colts and roping but when it is -40 out it's a pretty good way to pass time.

If you decide to pursue it my advice is: (if you dont have time for an actual saddle making school which i didn't)

1. Buy both Jeremiah Watt and Dale Harwoods dvd's
2. Read everything you can find on here and elsewhere (Steve Brewers ground seat tutorial I found to be invaluable)
3. buy Al Stohlmans saddle making encyclopaedia set
4. Practice hand sewing a lot if you don't have a sewing machine.
5. get very handy with a round knife
6. learn not to get in a rush!!
7. Look up all the pros posts on here - There are lots of them. The insight they provide is invaluable.

Anyhow, this is my opinion which is free and is worth what it costs!

Regards,

Ron L