Cartridge Loops Question

[Bruno Rock]

Hi guys, I'm new into leatherworking and it has become very addictive to me

I made for myself a couple of gunbelts, with cartridge loops stitched in the classic method, but since I've bumped in this picture, I ve decided from now to make my future gunbelts with that system too, but I'm wondering if it's just enough cut the slots on the belt and place trough them the leather designed for the loops. Of course you have to rivet both ends, and line the belt, to avoid possible damage to the loops, I'm also asking if this method durable and if is going to hold firmly the cartridges. Looks to me indeed a save-time system since you don't have to stitch every single cartridge loop placement.

Thanks in advance for any suggestion and advice.

Cheers from Italy

Bruno

Edited October 19, 2014 by Bruno Rock

[TexasJack]

There are several methods for making cartridge loops. I seem to recall a thread discussing that, but can't find it at the moment. The method illustrated in your photo is fast and very attractive. It does have one serious weakness: once a cartridge is pulled out, it's possible for the adjoining loops to become loose.

[Bruno Rock]

That's what I feared about that method, I found out the others topics and alos this interesting pic

[Dwight]

There are several methods for making cartridge loops. I seem to recall a thread discussing that, but can't find it at the moment. The method illustrated in your photo is fast and very attractive. It does have one serious weakness: once a cartridge is pulled out, it's possible for the adjoining loops to become loose.

Actually, . . . not meaning to disparage TexasJack, . . . but if it is done correctly, . . . that cannot and will not happen.

First, . . . make sure the leather you are using for the loops is about a good 1/16 wider than the slots you punch. They then get pinched into the slot and don't move because of that pinch at the top and bottom because of the excess width.

Second, . . . pull the loops tight around the cartridges as you go.

Third, . . . contact cement your loops to a liner and sew the edges together to make your belt.

There is then no feasible way the loops will become loose by taking out a cartridge here and there. That is simply an internet rumor, . . . as far as I am concerned, . . . and if anyone saw it happen, . . . I'd chalk it up to sloppy workmanship on the belt.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Treed]

I totally agree with Dwight and use this for belts that the customer wants to save some money......a good stitched set to loops just has a greater wow factor an makes the belt if done right in my book, which is pretty worn out

[billybopp]

I don't know too much about these, but it seems that it may be a good idea, on style #1 and #2 above, to put a few stitches between each loop. You'd only need a small number of stitches: just enough to prevent the loops from "creeping", and it may also help the back part of the loops, inside the belt, to lie flat.

The look you want, and hand vs. machine stitching may be a factor in what you do as well. ( Not to mention your ability to get the slots cut perfectly perpendicular and evenly spaced ... which I suck at).

Stitches and slots both might be overkill, but if you're a belt AND suspenders guy it's a good thing.

Just a thought

Bill

[Dwight]

From the picture of the OP, . . . it seems he is doing style # 2, . . . which IMHO, . . . is THE way to do them.

They will not get loose if done right, . . . they keep the rim of the cartridge from digging into the belt itself, . . . and they will get to a place where the cartridge is easy in / easy out, . . . but if you lay it down, . . . or tip over, . . . they won't fall out.

Stitches on that style is just overkill, . . . and a lot of extra work for nothing.

Actually the slots are pretty easy to cut, . . . if you have the "tool". It is a little home made "T" square that has marks for the top and bottom of the slot. It also has a little piece coming down from the top that shows the exact spacing for the next one. Makes the whole process a whole lot simpler.

May God bless,

Dwight

[billybopp]

Love the tool, Dwight! The only things I do with regularly spaced slots are guitar straps (so far), and that would be a tremendous help on some of the adjustable straps. I've been using a T-square, which helps get things perpendicular, but then spacing is still a bit touch and go. I'm gonna have to make one.

Thanks!!

Bill

[Dwight]

Thanks, Bill, . . .

I make all my cowboy belts with a curve in them, . . . makes the top a tad shorter than the bottom, . . . makes it hug the hips better, . . . keep it from falling off.

Cowboys really hate it when their gunbelts hit the dirt.

I made the square originally so I could get that straight down slot from any place in the curve, . . . just have to make sure the front edge and the back edge of the top piece are equal distance from the edge you measure from. . . .

May God bless,

Dwight

[TexasJack]

...First, . . . make sure the leather you are using for the loops is about a good 1/16 wider than the slots you punch. They then get pinched into the slot and don't move because of that pinch at the top and bottom because of the excess width.

Second, . . . pull the loops tight around the cartridges as you go.

Third, . . . contact cement your loops to a liner and sew the edges together to make your belt....

As much as I hate to point this out, I am right. In order to KEEP the loops from slipping, you've gotta add all the steps Dwight listed.

I'm not saying you can't do this method, merely that it has it's weakness. Dwight is simply compensating for that.

[ChuckBurrows]

I've used all three and style 2 is the one that the Old George Lawrence Co used on hundreds if not thousands of their gun belts. Style 1 is more likely to push through to the back and then only if the loops aren't slightly oversize as Dwight noted, or the belt is not lined, or you're not wearing it - if you're wearing it then the loops cannot push out the back. Rather than sewing them on an unlined belt I've used spots and/or cap rivets between the loops on style 3 - adds nice deco and keeps the loops on the front. You can several belts done like this on my website.

With style 2, which is my favorite for various reasons, I've never had the loops push out the back when unlined once the loops are form fitted. This is the style I use for my personal gear and in over 50 years wearing such a cartridge belt I've never had any problems even when working in the outdoors for long periods in my younger days as a cow hand, trapper, and guide and it's stronger than sewn loops. Also never had the back of the loops wear away when unlined.

[Bruno Rock]

Thanks a lot for all the opinions, soon I'll try style number 2

[TexasJack]

Will Ghormley had some good pictures illustrating the way he sews cartridge loops - I believe it's on the post he did for the "Hand of God" holster.

[Dwight]

Sewing on loops like Will showed produces a very pretty gun belt, . . . and it will carry the cartridges, . . .

But if you get John Bianchi's video series on making western gun leather, . . . his process is much cleaner looking, . . . and from my personal experience, . . . is a better way to do it.

Of course, . . . Will's process is geared mostly to the hand sewer, . . . John's is to the machine man.

Either will work, . . . but neither is as durable as the #2 post from Bruno Rock above.

May God bless,

Dwight

[TexasJack]

Chuck, I thought you'd already gone into hibernation for the winter!! Good to see you post!

This is not a very elaborate thread, but it's fun to discuss techniques in some detail. I like to know why I might choose a particular method over another one, or when one method might be better for a particular application.

Guys like Chuck and Will make this stuff look easy, but they've had some serious depth of experience to get to that point.

[bushpilotmexico]

Hi Dwight,

I sent you a PM asking what tool you use to cut the slots?

thx

[Geneva]

I use nickel plated brass rivets between cartridges, no glue.

A 1" bag punch for the slots.

You should be able to get 18 rounds on a size 40/42" belt. 24 rounds on a size 48/50" belt. Naturally there is a liner on the belt sewn top and bottom of the finished loops. 5/8ths. inch spacing 1/2" from the top of the belt.

You don't need to wet the loop material to make it work. I use .41 mag cartridges for the 45 long Colt.

My 2 cents

[bagga]

just what i was looking for.