Reinforcing Mouth Of Iwb Holster

[asbandr]

Hello! I have a small holster making business and have had great reviews so far. One suggestion a friend made was to reinforce the mouth of my IWB holster for easier reholstering. I use 6-7 oz leather that is wet molded to the gun. I've seem where people add an extra strip of leather to the top of the holster. I make a pancake style double clip holster and was wondering how to best add this. Does it need to go all the way around the front and back? Or can I just put it in the front? How effective is adding it to reinforcing the mouth? I'm guessing after curing the leather I would stitch this on, then stitch the front and back together then wet mold it all. I'll add a pic of what I make and am welcome to taking suggestions for improvements or alternatives to the leather strip for reinforcement.

[Denster]

Adding a reinforcement piece to a pancake style holster is useless and only makes the holster thicker. It can be used effectively on envelope style holsters with many makers using a thin strip of steel under the leather.

[camano ridge]

SHow us a picture of what you are making. Like Denster said on a IWB pancake style a reinforcment piece is not really going to be effective in keeping the mouth of the holster open as much as you want. I know some one that shapes a piece of kydex that is sandwiched between two pieces of leather he says it works. I have not tried it and do not know how it works over long term.

[asbandr]

So sorry, thought I had added a picture.

[supercub]

SHow us a picture of what you are making. Like Denster said on a IWB pancake style a reinforcment piece is not really going to be effective in keeping the mouth of the holster open as much as you want. I know some one that shapes a piece of kydex that is sandwiched between two pieces of leather he says it works. I have not tried it and do not know how it works over long term.

I did one awhile back by sandwiching a strip of galvanized steel between the layers. It worked well, but was a bit of a PITA to build.

Mine was a prototype and is pretty crude, but it keeps the mouth open as well as a kydex holster.

[supercub]

Tried to post a picture of the prototype, but unable to do it on this IPad. I'll try it later on a real computer. I posted a pic of it sometime ago, so those who are interested can probably find it in an earlier post.

Check out " tuckable pancake" using the search function.

Edited October 23, 2014 by supercub

[Dwight]

I'll play the devil's advocate, . . . take a look at a Versa Max 2 holster from Milt Sparks, . . . take a look at my Cactus on my website, . . . we both use a reinforcement piece, . . . and I do know for a fact it makes a difference.

My Cactus will stay open with that reinforcement piece, . . . and it does not need a piece of steel or anything else sandwiched in between. I cannot speak for the VM2 as to whether it has or does not have metal in it, . . . but the extra leather does far more than add thickness. It adds strength, . . . and it does also aid in keeping the mouth of the holster open so the re-holstering can be accomplished with only one hand, . . . something that cannot be done if the mouth collapses.

But it is a "to each his own", . . . Lobo makes all sorts of holsters, . . . without reinforcements.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Denster]

Dwight makes a good point that a reinforcement can be used effectively on a pancake design like the VM2 or his cactus but only if it wraps around the front of the gun. If it only attaches to the front panel, the way most do, then it will not be effective in keeping the holster open.

[Matt Alsaker]

Most (I think all but one) of Milt Sparks IWB holsters use a steel reinforcement piece under the leather reinforcement. I use a piece of 20 gauge stainless steel that is custom laser cut to the shape and size I want at a local shop for me. When I first started building holsters it was for local cops and they demanded the steel reinforced mouth (probably because a lot of them were wearing a Milt Sparks holster). For the most part cops want to be able to holster easily with one hand. Cops train to constantly be evaluating dynamic situations. They want to be able to transition quickly in and out of the holster, potentially several times during a single incident. The civilian concealed carry crowd tends to be a little different. If presented with a threat, civilians tend to stay out of the holster until law enforcement arrives. There tends to be very minimal dynamic transitions into the holster. **This is general statement based on my observations / experience and wont' be true everywhere or for everyone.** Each customer needs to determine their needs and potential applications may be when buying a holster. The customer should know any pro's and con's of the particular style / model holster they chose to carry in, then train to compensate for the con's.

Will an IWB stay open without steel reinforcement? Yes, but to a lesser degree than one that is reinforced with steel. Some of it depends on the size of the handgun (small frame versus larger frame), some of it depends on how tight your belt is cranked down (I know some that carry with it so loose you'd think if they ran the entire holster would bounce around and others that wear their belt so tight I'm surprised they can breath), and some of it depends on the quality of the materials / construction. Does the steel reinforcement effect comfort? I've never had any complaints, many makers use steel reinforcement, and Milt Sparks doesn't seem to have a shortage of customers. Should the reinforcement piece (leather and / or steel) wrap around the mouth of the holster? I think that method works the best, but have seen "clam shell" style reinforcement (individual reinforcement pieces for the front and back). The "clam shell" style IWB's I've seen I have not been impressed with. IWB carry is not for everyone for a variety of reasons, but those that carry that way tend to love it.

Building an IWB with a wrap around stainless steel reinforcement piece does take extra time and until you get used to doing them you'll mess up the occasional holster, but being able to do so opens up more of the IWB market for you. That being said, I have another style IWB holster out in the field being tested. It does NOT have any type of reinforcement and the feedback has been great (although the testers are all skinny LEO and military athletic types who carry IWB pretty much exclusively).

Good luck.

[BHPshooter]

I'll play the devil's advocate, . . . take a look at a Versa Max 2 holster from Milt Sparks, . . . take a look at my Cactus on my website, . . . we both use a reinforcement piece, . . . and I do know for a fact it makes a difference.

My Cactus will stay open with that reinforcement piece, . . . and it does not need a piece of steel or anything else sandwiched in between. I cannot speak for the VM2 as to whether it has or does not have metal in it, . . . but the extra leather does far more than add thickness. It adds strength, . . . and it does also aid in keeping the mouth of the holster open so the re-holstering can be accomplished with only one hand, . . . something that cannot be done if the mouth collapses.

But it is a "to each his own", . . . Lobo makes all sorts of holsters, . . . without reinforcements.

May God bless,

Dwight

Agreed. I'm a big believer in the reinforced mouth. Everything I make these days has a mouth reinforcement.

Dwight makes a good point that a reinforcement can be used effectively on a pancake design like the VM2 or his cactus but only if it wraps around the front of the gun. If it only attaches to the front panel, the way most do, then it will not be effective in keeping the holster open.

That has not been my experience. I make some IWBs that have the mouthpiece wrap around (like the Sparks VM2), and I make some that don't. I haven't ever had the mouth collapse on any of them... and I carry IWB all day, every day.

It's not everybody's thing, I get that. But I'm a believer.

[Denster]

I would be most interested to know what method you use to construct a pancake IWB holster, with only a front panel reinforcement, that will not ever close up after the weapon is drawn, Seriously.

[supercub]

IWB flat back pancake w/integral steel band. A strip of 20 ga galvanized sandwiched between two layers of 4/5 0z on the front piece of the pancake. The mouth has shown no propensity to collapse when the pistol is removed. Please excuse the crude construction and finish. This one is a prototype with leather salvaged from the scrap bin.

[asbandr]

Very nice. Where do you get the steel and how do you construct this portion of the holster? Like stamping the steel and such?

[supercub]

Very nice. Where do you get the steel and how do you construct this portion of the holster? Like stamping the steel and such?

The steel is hardware store galvanized flashing. Lowes, Home Depot, or ACE usually has sheets of the stuff. Cut it out with tin sips. Since this holster is a flat back, figure out how long the strip needs to be to reach stitchline to stitchline. Sew (and glue) it between the two front layers and bend the front over the gun. Mold the front (wet) over the gun and let it dry. When dry, layout the stitchlines and sew it to the flat back. The metal strip is enclosed between two layers of leather and is captured in the form of a "bridge" between the stichlines. The steel is not all that thick and is fairly easy to bend to shape prior sewing. Once the metal is in final position, it can't move (since it is held between the stitchlines. I'm sure you could bend it out of shape if you exert enough force, but it seems to work pretty well to keep the holster mouth open.

[BHPshooter]

I would be most interested to know what method you use to construct a pancake IWB holster, with only a front panel reinforcement, that will not ever close up after the weapon is drawn, Seriously.

Well, let's be clear -- I'm not saying that it couldn't ever happen, I'm saying that it hasn't happened to me.

Just for demonstration's sake, here are some pics. I even cinched my belt an extra notch for these pictures. The holster in the first pic is 2 years old, the holster in the second pic is 1.5 years old, both made with 6/7 Hermann Oak. One-handed reholstering is a requirement for me, and these two meet that requirement.

Also, in pic #2, the dog says hello.

[Red Cent]

Supercub, is that flashing around 11 gauge?

[supercub]

I've used a variety of metal thickness. Some of the old Milt Sparks holsters used a 20 gauge piece (.0359). I found that to be a little too thick for my method. It will work, but it is a struggle to form it around the gun unless you build an envelope style holster. I will sometimes use a piece of metal strap ( banding) that measures .75" x .0239 (around 24 ga.). It works pretty well, but it is not galvanized, so it can rust.

The flashing I find in the big box hardware stores varies from 30 ga. .0120 up to 26 ga. The 30 gauge works okay, but it is a little thin and flexible. I have not tried to use a double thickness of the 30 ga., but don't see why it couldn't work.

If you have trouble finding workable thickness, try a heating and cooling outfit. They should have lots of scrap sheet from fabricating duct work.

[Dwight]

Supercub, is that flashing around 11 gauge?

C'mon, Red Cent, . . . 11 gauge is closer to tank armor than flashing,........ that stuff is an eighth of an inch thick, . . . well, . . . almost armor anyway

May God bless,

Dwight

[renegadelizard]

I got to chime in here and ask what is the purpose of one handed reholstering?...For anyone carrying inside the waistband, and yes, even in a law enforcement role, what purpose does it serve...if i have just pulled my gun on someone, i will not reholster it until the threat is no longer a threat...then i will reholster it with two hands, a trombone, a shoehorn and anything else i think i need to use..why, because the threat is no longer a threat...one handed reholstering, aka, "tactical reholstering", is a concept used and practiced by tactical units carrying outside the waistband, either for quick weapons transitions, or going hands on with a "live" threat..even then, they have a cover unit with a firearm still out and in the fight...ive been a cop for 20 years, and i have seen this mentality creep into the scene with much dismay....bottom line, "practics" or the practical application of equipment and personnel, will always beat tactics...maybe someday tacticool will grow up and be practicool....thus endeth my rant..lol..

[cleanview]

I got to chime in here and ask what is the purpose of one handed reholstering?...For anyone carrying inside the waistband, and yes, even in a law enforcement role, what purpose does it serve...if i have just pulled my gun on someone, i will not reholster it until the threat is no longer a threat...then i will reholster it with two hands, a trombone, a shoehorn and anything else i think i need to use..why, because the threat is no longer a threat...one handed reholstering, aka, "tactical reholstering", is a concept used and practiced by tactical units carrying outside the waistband, either for quick weapons transitions, or going hands on with a "live" threat..even then, they have a cover unit with a firearm still out and in the fight...ive been a cop for 20 years, and i have seen this mentality creep into the scene with much dismay....bottom line, "practics" or the practical application of equipment and personnel, will always beat tactics...maybe someday tacticool will grow up and be practicool....thus endeth my rant..lol..

At first glance I started to respond with the standard arguments in contrary to yours.......after reading it with patience and thinking about it you have a very valid point.........but then again I dont even know what two handed reholstering is.....

[renegadelizard]

At first glance I started to respond with the standard arguments in contrary to yours.......after reading it with patience and thinking about it you have a very valid point.........but then again I dont even know what two handed reholstering is.....

You have a bunch of people who attend these civilian on patrol type courses, and inevitably there is some swat guy teaching some portion of the class, and at some point tactics get brought up and the swat guy tells about his tactics and the civilian hears what he/she wants to hear...the next thing you know, you have a guy asking for a concealed carry IWB holster that will fit a full sized sig with a laser, flashlight combo, with a reinforced mouth so he can holster with one hand...because the swat guy said tactical reholstering was important....i guess im just getting old...little things like this really irk me...like quad rails on an ar 15...why, for the love of all things Holy, do you need 4 rails on a carbine...it looks about as cool as a cheese grater....anyway, two handed reholstering is when you have to use your non firing hand to assist in reholstering your firearm..

[Dwight]

When I was in the military, . . . we had our handy dandy, flap over, push the button through the hole, leather holster for our 1911's, . . . that were older than most of us and weighed almost as much as did the pistol inside it.

One hand re-holstering???? You must be kidding, . . . unless you have 3 or more extra appendages on that one hand doing the re-holstering.

Fast forward to civilian life and a CHL:

Get up in the morning, . . . put on clothing, . . . add holster, . . . get ready to meet the day.

Go to town, . . . maybe stop at the post office, . . . maybe visit your kid's school to watch a practice or a game, . . . stop at any one of a half dozen government buildings for licenses, license plates, election posters, etc.

I do this at least once a week, . . . sometimes more often, . . . and I have a few places I shop that do not allow handguns.

No, . . . I am not going out into my shop and create some dufus looking wannabe holster that requires two hands, 13 fingers, and the ability to bend over completely backwards and kiss the floor just to put my 1911 back in my holster.

I want one that creates, . . . exemplifies, . . . allows, . . . and promotes one hand re-holstering. Why? Because I am lazy for one thing (I freely admit that, . . . ) and except for the first time in the morning, . . . standing beside my bed, . . . all the other re-holstering opportunities are in my vehicle, . . . sitting in the driver's seat, . . . and it is really hard to pull my left arm around my body, . . . past the steering wheel, . . . over the seat belt, . . . so it can hold the holster open while my right hand inserts the weapon.

THAT, . . . is the reason I designed, . . . created, . . . and manufacture a holster that "creates, . . . exemplifies, . . . allows, . . . and promotes one hand re-holstering".

It is not necessarily, . . . "tacti-cool", . . . but it is "practi-cool", . . . and it makes life just a little bit easier.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited October 25, 2014 by Dwight

[asbandr]

I honestly don't really care a whole lot about one handed reholstering vs. Two handed. Though I will say it makes reholstering easier, and to me safer, with less involvement necessary from the other hand. This comes in handy when you're practicing drawing from the holster. But regardless of what works for me, a reinforced mouth for single - handed reholstering is what many of my customers want. I aim to please.

[Red Cent]

Whoops! Meant 11mm. Testing you Dwight.

[Dwight]

Whoops! Meant 11mm. Testing you Dwight.

Well, . . . I'm not sure I'd want a reinforcement piece out of 11mm steel either.

That's something near 44/100 of an inch, . . .

Of course, . . . I doubt if it ever would get "bent out of shape", . . . provided of course, . . . it could ever get "bent into shape".

May God bless,

Dwight